Chat for Legacy of the Force: Revelation
Sunday, March 2nd, 2008 / #eu on irc.holonet.org

19:59 <Loyal_Imperial> CHAT! CHAT! CHAT!
19:59 <Loyal_Imperial> It's 8.
19:59 <Bly> Hoo-rah!
19:59 <Dunc> Chat is now
20:00 <RF> !!!!
20:00 <Jello> Huzzah.
20:00 <Bly> OK, I'll start
20:00 <Bly> With a poll, of sorts
20:00 <RF> The chat is primed!
20:00 <Dunc> Okay. Overall thoughts?
20:00 <Bly> Who here liked this book?
20:00 <Horsey> it was okay
20:00 <Dunc> It was okay/meh.
20:00 <Loyal_Imperial> Mediocre.
20:00 <Trip> *cricket*
20:00 <Horsey> should've ended 50 pages earlier
20:00 <Kobe> it was average
20:00 <Bly> I liked it.
20:00 <Kagari> Started off slow... got good in parts... end was a bit dragged
20:00 * becca will be largley lurking and listening now as she hasn't read the book yet.
20:00 <whiskers> Book was okay, not as good as some of the others and there were some annoying moments.
20:00 <Bly> Yeah, you can shoot me now...
20:00 <Bly> :p
20:00 <Loyal_Imperial> Parts were brilliant.
20:00 <Loyal_Imperial> Parts were abysmal.
20:00 <Kagari> Yes, annoying moments...
20:00 <Trip> I couldn't get past chapter 4
20:00 <McEwok> It was better than the previous ones.
20:01 <Trip> I think I decided I can't be bothered
20:01 <Bly> LI: The first one being Pellaeon, the second one being the Mandos?
20:01 <Loyal_Imperial> Better than Sacrifice and Bloodlines.
20:01 <McEwok> Trip pointed out some... sillines... I overlooked, though.
20:01 <Loyal_Imperial> Second was Mandos.
20:01 <Dunc> I liked the Luke and Ben bonding.
20:01 <Loyal_Imperial> First was Niathal and Jacen.
20:01 <Bly> AH
20:01 <Loyal_Imperial> Ben too.
20:01 <Bly> Yes
20:01 <Trip> I think I'm too analytical
20:01 <Trip> in my reading
20:01 <Trip> or something
20:01 <becca> what sillines?!
20:01 <Bly> Niathal was GREAT in this book
20:01 <Trip> because boy howdy
20:01 <Jello> non legeo ut audiam
20:01 <Trip> Bec
20:01 <Trip> asking me, or McE?
20:01 <Dunc> Okay. Shall we start with the Imperials?
20:01 <whiskers> Mandos was indeed one for me. Nothing against them, but I hate when they're shoved down the collective throat of Star Wars fans as the best thing ever
20:01 <becca> does legere mean read and audiam mean listen?
20:01 <Loyal_Imperial> Imperials.
20:01 <Bly> Dunc: sure
20:01 <Loyal_Imperial> Good.
20:01 <Jello> yes
20:02 <becca> Trip - whoever will tell me what was silly!
20:02 <Bly> I'll start
20:02 <Dunc> Whiskers: OT, but WORD.
20:02 <Loyal_Imperial> Imperials, ON!
20:02 <Trip> Sure
20:02 <Bly> Pellaeon was a BADASS in this book
20:02 * LosDosMos has joined #eu
20:02 <McEwok> Imperials.
20:02 <Trip> Bec, I'm sure it'll come up
20:02 <Horsey> MARLY!!!!!!!!!!
20:02 <Bly> Seriously
20:02 <Loyal_Imperial> Marly?
20:02 * Dunc changes topic to 'Revelation Chat . TOPIC: Imperials..'
20:02 <Trip> I'll stick with the topic
20:02 * Horsey sets mode: +v LosDosMos
20:02 <becca> no worries then :)
20:02 <Trip> LDM!
20:02 <Bly> Of course, Jello hates me now for saying that.
20:02 <Trip> Long time no see!
20:02 <LosDosMos> Trip!
20:02 <Bly> :p
20:02 <McEwok> Pellaeon... was a tired old man. Does Traviss have something against Humphrey Littleton?
20:02 <Jello> Of course I do.
20:02 <Bly> Hey, it's LDM.
20:02 <Kagari> I couldn't help but laugh at the Moffs waiting in the hall for Gil to die <_<
20:02 <Jello> Hi LDM, long time no see
20:02 <Dunc> I just can't take Daala seriously.
20:02 <Dunc> AT ALL.
20:02 <Loyal_Imperial> The Moff numbers was annoying.
20:02 <Havac> Jesus Christ. This list of release dates is fascinating.
20:02 <Horsey> I can't take her seriously either
20:02 <McEwok> Shush, you uppity little Sullustan
20:02 <Loyal_Imperial> *were
20:02 <Bly> Dunc: that was hard, as well
20:02 <Trip> I'm thinking Pelly's insane
20:02 <Havac> Oh, and ZOMG MARLY!
20:02 <McEwok> DAALA
20:02 <RF> Its Daala.
20:02 <LosDosMos> Hey guys! Been super busy with work and school. Glad to see y'all!
20:03 <McEwok> Superweapons.
20:03 <whiskers> Kagari, that was indeed entertaining. Liked that Daala was back and we got a first name.
20:03 <Dunc> She's DAALA. She's like the very definition of early bantam/KJA fail.
20:03 <Loyal_Imperial> Daala's superweapons were annoying.
20:03 <Jello> ...Daala has a first name?
20:03 * becca wants a sekrit stash of superweapons
20:03 <Bly> Yep
20:03 <Horsey> yes
20:03 <Havac> Natasi Daala.
20:03 <Bly> Natasi
20:03 <Loyal_Imperial> Natasi.
20:03 <whiskers> Natasi, or something
20:03 <Loyal_Imperial> Renatasian.
20:03 <Jello> ...........
20:03 <McEwok> Dunc: word.
20:03 <Kagari> I laughed out loud
20:03 <becca> NATASI! Like BSG. It's I, Satan backwards.
20:03 <Kagari> XD
20:03 <Bly> Dammit, Havac beat me to it
20:03 <whiskers> And I was beat to it.
20:03 <McEwok> No, Jelila.
20:03 <RF> Ami Daala
20:03 <Bly> Rather ironic, really
20:03 <Dunc> Plus, what's up with everyone treating her like she's Thrawn 2.0?
20:03 <McEwok> If Pellaeon can be Gil, I see no reason why Daala can't be Jelila.
20:03 <Bly> Hmm...if she was Rentasian...
20:03 <Bly> ...could Daala know Vuffi Raa?
20:03 <McEwok> Dunc: KT is a friend of KJA, I believe?
20:04 <Dunc> I roll my eyes when they do that to Thrawn, but this is DAALA.
20:04 <Trip> Well
20:04 <Bly> MCE: Yeah, i think that's it
20:04 <Trip> Han was shitting hisself in Darksaber
20:04 <Trip> when Daala showed back up
20:04 <Kagari> lol
20:04 <LordHydronium> With laughter?
20:04 <RF> Because she's nuts.
20:04 <Trip> With fear
20:04 <RF> She'll kill them all!
20:04 <LordHydronium> Fear of laughing?
20:04 <Dunc> The retcon to end all retcons: Daala as competent.
20:04 <RF> By wrecking a star destroyer.
20:04 <RF> :p
20:04 <Bly> I loved how Pellaeon kept thinking about how hot Daala was
20:04 <RF> ...
20:04 <Trip> Han has a tendency to lose his shit when an author wants to make his imp warlord skurry
20:04 <Bly> It was so hilarious
20:04 <whiskers> LOL
20:04 <sabarte> hahahahahahah
20:04 <Horsey> I also don't like how she's got superpower weapons
20:04 <Horsey> no more of those
20:04 <Loyal_Imperial> Me neither.
20:04 <Bly> Aye
20:04 <Trip> That's scary in redneck
20:04 <sabarte> It's Karen
20:05 <Loyal_Imperial> The Moffs were absurd.
20:05 <sabarte> she likes overwhelming tech advantages
20:05 <Trip> The remnant was absurd
20:05 <Loyal_Imperial> Waiting outside for Pellaeon to kick it.
20:05 <sabarte> see: triple zero
20:05 <Horsey> and I don't
20:05 <RF> 9_9
20:05 <sabarte> and various mando gadgets
20:05 <Trip> Is the remnant part of the GA?
20:05 <Bly> No
20:05 <Trip> I'm baffled
20:05 <Horsey> there was too much of it between the Mando armor shit and the big guns
20:05 <LordHydronium> Do I have to see Triple Zero? :P
20:05 <Trip> utterly baffled
20:05 <Loyal_Imperial> Baffling.
20:05 <becca> ...I'm sure the remnant WAS part of the GA
20:05 <becca> wasn't it?
20:05 <Loyal_Imperial> Well...
20:05 <Loyal_Imperial> Pellaeon was SC.
20:05 <Kagari> No?
20:05 <Bly> LH: nah, your version was accurate
20:05 <RF> I thought it was.
20:05 <Trip> That was the implication
20:05 <LordHydronium> It was as of Dark Nest, at least.
20:05 <Loyal_Imperial> Supreme Commander of the GADF.
20:05 <Bly> LI: SC?
20:05 <Bly> Ah, nvm
20:06 <Dunc> So, Pelly's death.
20:06 <Loyal_Imperial> Pelly heading the Defense Force sure makes it seem that way.
20:06 <Trip> XD
20:06 <Loyal_Imperial> He's dead.
20:06 <Loyal_Imperial> At 92.
20:06 <Bly> Yep
20:06 <Kagari> more than two paragraphs
20:06 <Loyal_Imperial> Love to see that holonet news page.
20:06 <Trip> Only good part
20:06 <Bly> so much for sixty being the new forty
20:06 <becca> I remember thinking it was cool they were part of it.
20:06 <LordHydronium> He retreated from life. :(
20:06 <Loyal_Imperial> Hah.
20:06 <Bly> :|
20:06 <Trip> I loved his dying words
20:06 <Trip> so damn lame
20:06 <Trip> poor pelly
20:06 <Trip> he fails even at that
20:06 <Jello> what were they?
20:06 <Trip> XD
20:06 <becca> He retreated, and when he couldn't retreat anymore, Daala CORPSENAPPED him and then kept retreating for him!
20:06 <Loyal_Imperial> "Go rot somewhere else, Villip"
20:06 <Bly> Anyone else wondering what Abel's thinking of his retcon being tossed out the window?
20:07 <Trip> Villip
20:07 <Trip> scathing!
20:07 <Trip> lol
20:07 <Bly> If I were him, I'd be pissed.
20:07 <Loyal_Imperial> So would I.
20:07 <Kagari> lol
20:07 <RF> Villip isn't even a curse. WTF.
20:07 <sabarte> wait
20:07 <sabarte> wait wait
20:07 <Loyal_Imperial> I'd retcon it right back.
20:07 <becca> If I were him, I'd get pissed
20:07 <becca> and then I woudln't care anymore.
20:07 <sabarte> Daala is Renastasian?!
20:07 <Bly> Though at least he kept Spar
20:07 <Loyal_Imperial> Yes.
20:07 <RF> "You dirty communications device!"
20:07 <sabarte> cool!!!
20:07 <Loyal_Imperial> THAT Renatasia.
20:07 <whiskers> Bly: I'd be annoyed, personally, if I were him
20:07 <Bly> I rather liked that character
20:07 <Loyal_Imperial> Lando's Renatasia.
20:07 <Havac> Actually, his last words were "Quille."
20:07 <Loyal_Imperial> Well, that too.
20:07 <LordHydronium> Shaquille?
20:07 <sabarte> :D :D :D
20:07 <Loyal_Imperial> Moff Quille.
20:07 <Trip> I still wish he'd called out to Mitty
20:07 <Bly> Moff Shaquille?
20:07 <RF> Shaq-fu!
20:07 <Trip> then
20:07 <Dunc> I thought Lando was Sacorran?
20:07 <Kobe> J'Quille?
20:07 <Trip> in the end
20:07 * sabarte is now happier with Revalations
20:07 <sabarte> a little
20:07 <becca> Shaq-attaq!
20:07 <McEwok> Daala did torture Han, remember?
20:07 <LordHydronium> Dunc: He is.
20:07 <sabarte> No, this is from the Lando trilogu
20:07 <Loyal_Imperial> From the Lando Triliogy.
20:07 <Loyal_Imperial> *Trilogy
20:08 <Dunc> ahh
20:08 <sabarte> it's a world the Imps destroyed, basically
20:08 * McEwok is slightly belated
20:08 <sabarte> in conquering
20:08 <Bly> Could Daala know Vuffi Raa?
20:08 <LordHydronium> Socorran, though. Not to be confused with Serroco or Saccorean. :P
20:08 <RF> A backwater colony planet.
20:08 <sabarte> and there's this mercenary sort that thinks it's Lando's fault
20:08 <sabarte> Of Vuffi Raa, probably
20:08 <Loyal_Imperial> She'd be one of the survivors.
20:08 <Bly> he did help destroy Rentasia
20:08 <sabarte> in his disguise
20:08 <Kobe> when I read Quille, I immediately thought of a SW character named J'Quille
20:08 <Loyal_Imperial> Probably.
20:08 <sabarte> Probably a kid of a survivor
20:08 <Horsey> Gentleman Gil annoyed me
20:08 <Trip> I liked Pelly & Daala's lil' song
20:08 <Horsey> someone referring to him as that
20:08 <Trip> It was so cute
20:08 <LordHydronium> Sounds like an old-timey boxer.
20:08 <Kobe> "Gil" period annoyed me
20:08 <Loyal_Imperial> Not sure on that.
20:08 <Trip> tum tum tum toom teem tum tum tum toom tee tum
20:08 <Bly> Yeah, same here
20:09 <Loyal_Imperial> Could be a young survivor.
20:09 <Kagari> Yep
20:09 <Loyal_Imperial> Otherwise she'd be under 59.
20:09 <Bly> He's PELLAEON, dammit! Not "Gil"!
20:09 <Trip> He'll always be pelly to me
20:09 <Bly> Sheesh
20:09 <Dunc> No one can spell Pellaeon
20:09 <Kagari> :|
20:09 <Loyal_Imperial> Pellaeon.
20:09 <Dunc> I can't.
20:09 <Loyal_Imperial> Pell + Aeon.
20:09 <Kobe> then Gilad
20:09 <LordHydronium> Hans Moleman > Gil.
20:09 <Bly> Pellaeon
20:09 <Bly> Pellaeon
20:09 <Bly> Pellaeon
20:09 <Bly> Pellaeon
20:09 <becca> can anyone confirm to me that daala mentions having a son and a granddaughter?
20:09 <Loyal_Imperial> Yes.
20:09 <Kobe> but not Gil
20:09 <Bly> Yes
20:09 <Loyal_Imperial> She does.
20:09 <RF> Pelly
20:09 <becca> HAHAHA!
20:09 <Dunc> Yes, Becca.
20:09 <Loyal_Imperial> The poor people.
20:09 <Kagari> becca yes
20:09 <Jello> Old Fuss and Failure
20:09 <Trip> It... spawned?
20:09 <becca> thanks
20:09 <Horsey> she does, bec
20:09 <Kagari> she does
20:09 <becca> that's...hilarious
20:09 <Loyal_Imperial> Yes, Trip.
20:09 <Bly> Trip: yep
20:09 <Loyal_Imperial> It spawned.
20:09 <Dunc> SPAWN OF DAALA!
20:09 <Loyal_Imperial> And the spawn spawned.
20:09 <Kagari> I had to read it twice
20:09 <Trip> Good lord
20:09 <Kagari> I was like wtf
20:09 <becca> Trip - those were my words exactly way back in the spoiler thread.
20:10 <sabarte> and yet again the youngest generation is female
20:10 <sabarte> where are the men?
20:10 <Bly> ...
20:10 <Loyal_Imperial> Gone.
20:10 <Bly> good question
20:10 <Loyal_Imperial> Long gone.
20:10 <sabarte> it's like they're trying to make a harem for ben or something
20:10 <becca> It's like...my favourite crack!theory.
20:10 <Loyal_Imperial> Hah.
20:10 <McEwok> Where was the Daalabrat mentioned?
20:10 <RF> ...
20:10 <becca> err, I mean crack!spoiler
20:10 <becca> in the book
20:10 <Kobe> "Gone 'Til November"
20:10 <sabarte> I mean the post-YJK generation
20:10 <Bly> end of the book, MCE
20:10 <becca> OMG - (daa)LabRat
20:10 <Dunc> Very briefly.
20:10 <becca> hur hur
20:10 <Kobe> lol bec
20:10 <Horsey> So is Daala now in charge of the Remnant?
20:10 <Loyal_Imperial> Nope.
20:10 <Bly> I hope not
20:10 <Kagari> No
20:10 <Loyal_Imperial> The Moffs are.
20:10 <becca> well she has all these prototype superwapons, I'm sure i can make some sort of joke...
20:10 <Horsey> I was a bit confused there
20:11 <Bly> Or the EMpire is fucked
20:11 <Horsey> but the Moffs were killed
20:11 <becca> oh god, the empire is really fucked if the moffs ar ein charge
20:11 <Kagari> Not all of them
20:11 <Bly> The Empire is fucked either way, becca
20:11 <sabarte> I dunno
20:11 <becca> they never agree on anything and it'll go back to being a petty, objectively evil type of place
20:11 <Trip> Well, they're forked until Soontir comes back
20:11 <sabarte> probably better than Daala :P
20:11 <Loyal_Imperial> Lecersen, Rosset, and Grand Moff What'sname are still alive.
20:11 <Trip> the remnant's always been a backwater useless poo hole
20:11 <whiskers> And Trip beat me to my thought.
20:11 <Dunc> Daala was just... what? Splinter force?
20:11 <Bly> I'm hoping that happens in Invincible, Trip
20:11 <Horsey> ah, so someone could come in and take over
20:11 <Bly> because that would totally redeem Denning in my eyes
20:11 <Trip> Speaking of Soontir
20:11 <Bly> Yeah?
20:12 <Trip> I might have to withdraw my support of the IWoD
20:12 <Havac> Soontir needs to get his ass in the Remnant.
20:12 <Loyal_Imperial> WHAT?
20:12 <Loyal_Imperial> WHAT?
20:12 <Loyal_Imperial> WHAT?
20:12 <Loyal_Imperial> WHAT?
20:12 <Loyal_Imperial> WHAT?
20:12 <Trip> Yes
20:12 <Horsey> Why?
20:12 <Bly> MWHAAAAAT?!?!?!
20:12 <Trip> Unless Denning fixes her
20:12 <Trip> which might happen
20:12 <Trip> but otherwise
20:12 <Bly> Whaddya mean "Fix"?
20:12 <becca> Is she *that* bad in Revelation?
20:12 <Loyal_Imperial> I didn't think so.
20:12 <Horsey> She's hardly in Revelation
20:12 <Bly> same
20:12 * Dunc changes topic to 'Revelation Chat . TOPIC: Jaina's adventures in Mando'ade..'
20:12 <Trip> Jag's better off impregnating Maarek's daughter before he dies
20:12 <Bly> apart from the Mando thing, she's not that bad
20:12 <Havac> Oh noes, she is has Mando freind!!!
20:12 <Horsey> she's in more than she usually is, but for the most part its not about her
20:12 <McEwok> brb
20:12 <McEwok> Jag/TK is starting to seem fun to me, though.
20:12 <Kagari> The early Jaina chapters SUCKED
20:12 <McEwok> Just as crack.
20:13 <Kagari> I was bored
20:13 <Dunc> That first-person bit... ugh
20:13 * Darklighter has joined #eu
20:13 <becca> really? that's diappointing to hear, Sey. I championed the bloody montage and now it's not even a big one? :(
20:13 <Bly> aye
20:13 <Trip> Dunc
20:13 <Trip> who's worse?
20:13 <Trip> Stackie or Traviss?
20:13 <Horsey> welcome, Darklighter
20:13 <whiskers> I wanted her to just go off on them after a while. Tear that super armor off of them with the Force and laugh.
20:13 <Loyal_Imperial> Traviss.
20:13 <Trip> With the first person shit?
20:13 <Bly> Stackie
20:13 * Horsey sets mode: +v Darklighter
20:13 <Darklighter> evening :-)
20:13 <Kagari> lol
20:13 <Dunc> Fett has NOT been hunting the Solos all her life. :P
20:13 <Bly> RC:HC was pretty dam good!
20:13 <Kagari> Yeah....
20:13 <Loyal_Imperial> SIRALT!
20:13 <Loyal_Imperial> That was his name.
20:13 <Bly> Who?
20:13 <Loyal_Imperial> The Grand Moffling.
20:13 <McEwok> Traviss.
20:13 <Bly> Ah
20:14 <Kagari> also, I still cant understand why the authors decided training with Fett was the best idea evar
20:14 <Loyal_Imperial> Grand Moff Siralt.
20:14 * larg has joined #eu
20:14 <McEwok> What happened to Siralt?
20:14 <Bly> Kagari: because he'
20:14 <Loyal_Imperial> No clue.
20:14 * Horsey sets mode: +v larg
20:14 <McEwok> I just saw one line...?
20:14 <Trip> Kag
20:14 <Bly> is Boba Fett!
20:14 <Loyal_Imperial> Still kicking, I assume.
20:14 <Horsey> welcome, larg
20:14 <Bly> dammit
20:14 <Loyal_Imperial> Yes, McEwok.
20:14 <Loyal_Imperial> One line.
20:14 <Bly> fricken typos
20:14 <Trip> it's because Traviss is writing for this
20:14 <Trip> dur
20:14 <Kagari> lol
20:14 <Bly> :|
20:14 <Loyal_Imperial> He's one of the 2+ Grand Moffs.
20:14 <Jello> Trip, you sadden me.
20:14 <Jello> profoundly.
20:14 <Dunc> Because all that Mando stuff had to funnel into the A-plot somewhere. :P
20:14 <Bly> ...
20:14 <Trip> Jello, I kid
20:14 <Kagari> Traviss must worship Fett
20:14 <Trip> but only slightly
20:15 <Trip> I wanted to cry when she popped beer caps
20:15 <Horsey> let's stick with book topics and not author topics :)
20:15 <Bly> For God's sake, people, LFL APPROVED this.
20:15 <Trip> Like, Jaina, nooo!
20:15 <Trip> Bly, I know
20:15 <becca> LFL approving stuff doesn't make it good.
20:15 <Bly> So some of the blame lies with them,
20:15 <Trip> They're insane
20:15 <Trip> or asleep at the wheel
20:15 <Kagari> True
20:15 <Dunc> LFL approves a lot of things.
20:15 <Kagari> lol
20:15 <Kagari> LFL :(
20:15 <Dunc> That doesn't mean it was the best idea.
20:15 <Bly> so at least spread out the bashing a LITTLE.
20:15 <Loyal_Imperial> I'd like to know what they WOULDN'T approve.
20:15 <whiskers> Like continuity errors and outright rewrites
20:15 <Bly> ;)
20:15 <Loyal_Imperial> Borleias = banking world.
20:15 <McEwok> Trip, but don't you understand - popping beer-caps is what Jedi powers are *RIGHT* for, because they must be enslaved to the MANDO way!!!!111eleven!!!
20:15 <Kagari> Oh god, the plot holes
20:15 <Bly> whiskers: I DID prefer Abel's version
20:16 <Horsey> I was disappointed in the Jaina training
20:16 <Trip> Trust me, Leland's gotten plenty of flak lately, bly
20:16 <Loyal_Imperial> Confederation = almost nonexistant.
20:16 <Dunc> Gasp!
20:16 <Kagari> Horsey, me too
20:16 <Bly> GASP!!
20:16 <Horsey> I wanted to read about more of the fighting techniques and stuff
20:16 <Jello> she did... what?
20:16 <becca> Thing is, I'll put the blame for accidental continuity errors at LFL's feet but I disagree that we should render the author blameless.
20:16 <Kagari> It was kind of lame
20:16 <Horsey> it all seemed completely mental to me
20:16 <Loyal_Imperial> Jello: You haven't heard?
20:16 <Dunc> Don't tell, they'll exile you from Mandoland. ;)
20:16 <Trip> Jello, I told you
20:16 <becca> The author is still primarily in control of the content of the novel, plot, characterisation, creative decisions that are quite broad
20:16 <Darklighter> the jaina training certainly could have had more depth of detail
20:16 <Kagari> Kind of like it was just thrown in there to take up pages
20:16 <Bly> becca: I didn't say completely blameless, I just said to spread out the blame
20:16 <Loyal_Imperial> With the Force, Jello.
20:16 <whiskers> I haven't even read the article, I'm just ticked that a preestablished retcon was changed for seemingly no real reason.
20:16 <Trip> I'm almost to rooting for the young Ms. Stele
20:16 <becca> fair dos, bly
20:16 <RF> Ms. Stele... XD
20:16 <becca> what does jaina actually learn from the mandos, anwyay?
20:16 <McEwok> I think the blame can be evenly thrown at Traviss, LFL, and the Jaina/Jag 'shippers with the mysterious early copies.
20:16 <RF> YES.
20:17 <Horsey> This book was played up to be all about Jaina's training and it really wasn't
20:17 <Kagari> To be "different"
20:17 <Bly> becca: nothing specific
20:17 <Horsey> that's why I'm disappointed
20:17 <Trip> Becca, absolutely nothing
20:17 <Kagari> I got nothing
20:17 <Bly> just how to suckerpunch your enemies
20:17 <becca> so far it seems to be how to not be a jedi anymore, and how to fight with a huge unwiledy sword
20:17 <Trip> Speaking of which
20:17 <Bly> and go temporarily insane on demand
20:17 <Darklighter> besides the beviin jekyll and hyde issue
20:17 <Trip> When did Bobby ever kill Jedi?
20:17 <Horsey> she learns to go mad psycho
20:17 <Trip> Or is this some yet-to-occure bullshit?
20:17 <becca> well...she's already actually insane
20:17 <Dunc> ,...Sometime.
20:17 <Horsey> balls to the walls
20:17 <Loyal_Imperial> In the past.
20:17 <Trip> Like a pre-retcon?
20:17 <becca> so that shouldn't be too hard
20:17 <Loyal_Imperial> He tried with Mace.
20:17 <RF> Tales. :p
20:17 <becca> she has a death wish and no sense of personal mental space.
20:17 <whiskers> And failed with Jaden Korr...
20:17 <McEwok> Who, Jaina?
20:17 <Horsey> I wondered that too, Trip
20:17 <Loyal_Imperial> Didn't he have a lightsaber in his duel with Vader?
20:17 <whiskers> Or got bored and left.
20:18 <Trip> Because every single character goes on and on about how nobody's killed more Jedi than Fett
20:18 <RF> Tales referenced him Killing Jedi.
20:18 <becca> ewok, yes.
20:18 <Loyal_Imperial> Or did he pick that up on the way?
20:18 <Trip> and that Fett's spent a lifetime killing Jedi
20:18 <LordHydronium> And got KOed by a totally untrained Havet Storm. XD
20:18 <Trip> blah blah blah
20:18 <Trip> Like, the fuck?
20:18 <RF> Wait, what?
20:18 <Loyal_Imperial> RF: ?
20:18 <RF> Really?
20:18 <RF> What?
20:18 <Loyal_Imperial> RF: ?
20:18 <McEwok> I think the problem started with his lightsaber in _Tales_. I wish I could find the old discussion of that...
20:18 <Loyal_Imperial> What what?
20:18 <RF> He's never killed a Jedi on-screen.
20:18 <RF> Ever.
20:18 <Trip> Yeah
20:18 <Loyal_Imperial> On-screen, of course not.
20:18 <Kagari> lol
20:18 <Trip> Thus the confusion
20:18 <becca> I mean, I think Jaina's awesome, but...no sense of personal mental space at all. Which also...awesome.
20:18 <Loyal_Imperial> Off-screen.
20:18 <Loyal_Imperial> On Traviss's screen.
20:19 <RF> Off-screen, there aren't enough Jedi around for him to have killed many.
20:19 <Trip> Apparently, apparently he's just Greevy and Ventress all rolled into one
20:19 <Dunc> The Jedi-killing thing existed before traviss.
20:19 <RF> Maybe during the Purge he killed a few.
20:19 <Loyal_Imperial> Or a Durge.
20:19 <Bly> With cooler armor, Trip
20:19 <RF> But not many.
20:19 <Loyal_Imperial> That's it!
20:19 <Loyal_Imperial> Retcon x2!
20:19 <Loyal_Imperial> He's mistaken for Jango.
20:19 <Trip> And apparently the mandies are a whole race of Jedi-killers
20:19 <Bly> ...
20:19 <Kagari> haha
20:19 <Loyal_Imperial> Referencing Galidraan?
20:19 <Trip> Seriously
20:19 <Dunc> I think the main problem with the Fett/Mando stuff is what whiskers said before.
20:19 <Trip> Who the hell knows
20:19 <Jello> Trip, just to be sure, there isn't really a Miss Stele, yes?
20:19 <Loyal_Imperial> No.
20:19 <Horsey> Marly? are you upset about Tahiri?
20:19 <Bly> Dunc: I forget, what was that?
20:19 <Trip> Jello, no
20:19 <Loyal_Imperial> There isn't one.
20:19 <Trip> I made her up
20:19 <Jello> good
20:19 <Trip> But she > Jaya at this point
20:20 <whiskers> Stuffing the Mando=awesome down our throats
20:20 <Trip> unless Denning keeps up what he started in the invincible preview
20:20 <Horsey> yeah, I'd agree with that whiskers
20:20 <Horsey> it makes me resent them though
20:20 <Kagari> The Invinvible preview did nothing for me :(
20:20 <Loyal_Imperial> Haven't read it.
20:20 <Trip> It's pretty eh
20:20 <Kagari> Invincible, even
20:20 <Horsey> agreed
20:20 <Trip> but it at least gives me hope for troy fixing stuff
20:21 <whiskers> It almost makes me resent them.
20:21 <Trip> Since he has Jaina all suspicious of Fett
20:21 <Dunc> I am mostly apathatic to the whole mando thing, but this series has pushed it to the point where I just want to wince at every mention.
20:21 <Trip> and Fett back to being an ass
20:21 <RF> Sigh.
20:21 <Darklighter> mando culture is interesting... mando = awesome, not so much
20:21 <Loyal_Imperial> Too.
20:21 <RF> Fett was over his feud with the solos.
20:21 <Loyal_Imperial> Much.
20:21 <Loyal_Imperial> NABOO!
20:21 <RF> Like, completely over.
20:21 <Bly> I wish DKM wrote the Fett parts
20:21 <Bly> collaborated with Traviss, perhaps
20:21 <Bly> that'd be nice
20:21 <Trip> Darklighter, Mandie culture used to be interesting
20:21 <Horsey> I dislike the Mando culture
20:21 <RF> He wouldn't do that.
20:21 <becca> OMG, I would just *die* if DKM wrote more Fett.
20:21 <Bly> Trip: Now it's just SO overdone
20:21 <Horsey> when it boils down, they're no different from everyone else in the Galaxy
20:21 <whiskers> Bly: I have the trilogy, but haven't read it yet.
20:22 <becca> that would be aweosme
20:22 <Horsey> I liked thinking of them as different
20:22 <RF> DKM said before he doesn't like LFL editing, etc.
20:22 * Loyal_Imperial adds another popular writer to the list he doesn't like
20:22 <Trip> Back before Ms Traviss decided to warp them into her own personal Utopian Society
20:22 <Kagari> ;o
20:22 <Bly> RF: I know
20:22 <sabarte> Jango's killed a lot of Jedi, though
20:22 <McEwok> RF: wasn't the issue Bantam editing?
20:22 <Bly> it'd still be awesome, though
20:22 <RF> Yes.
20:22 <becca> speaking purely from previous Mandie-culture outings, the attitude that it's morally coherent bothers me.
20:22 <Dunc> McE: A lot of the same folks are still in charge
20:22 * McEwok wonders if "Naboo" was Karen trying to prove that the issue was Mandos rather than over-use. :p
20:22 <RF> But I don't think he'd get along with Traviss, based on their completely different takes on teh character...
20:22 <Loyal_Imperial> The Naboo thing nearly gave me a headache.
20:22 <Havac> McEwok: it wasn't even consistent, since a lot of stuff that got shot down for DKM got approved elsewhere.
20:22 <Loyal_Imperial> The worst one was the naval battle.
20:22 <Kagari> Yeah
20:23 <McEwok> Dunc: Rothman, Rostoni - but that's it, and Rothman hardly line-edits.
20:23 <Trip> Does Naboo = England?
20:23 <RF> Movie planet references *in general* are stupid.
20:23 <Dunc> Oh, everything bein naboo-that and Naboo-this?
20:23 <Loyal_Imperial> THE. CHARACTER. IS. A. MON CAL.
20:23 <McEwok> Havac: who edited the short-story volumes.
20:23 <Loyal_Imperial> REFERENCE. MON CALAMARI.
20:23 <Bly> KJA
20:23 <Loyal_Imperial> A. WATER. PLANET.
20:23 <Bly> @Mce
20:23 <Trip> No, his problem wasn't with KJA
20:23 <Bly> I know
20:23 <McEwok> Trip: I think Naboo = Cornwall or Naboo = Wales. Or maybe Naboo = Spain
20:23 <Bly> he liked him
20:23 <Horsey> lol
20:23 <Trip> KJA actually went out of his way to help him out
20:23 <RF> Mon Calamari? Is that in the Holocron?
20:23 <Havac> It was with whoever was above KJA.
20:23 <Loyal_Imperial> Naboo = Italy.
20:23 <Kagari> lol
20:23 <becca> DAMMIT I REFUSE TO COME FROM NABBO
20:23 <becca> NABOO
20:23 <Loyal_Imperial> Naboo is Italy.
20:23 <becca> GIVE ME A COOL PLANET TO COME FROM!
20:23 <McEwok> Naboobies!
20:23 <RF> Sounds like a Naboo-boo
20:23 <Loyal_Imperial> Coruscant.
20:23 <McEwok> Mandalore?
20:23 <Loyal_Imperial> Anaxes.
20:23 <becca> NO
20:23 <Loyal_Imperial> Atrisia.
20:23 <Dunc> Now I'm just confused
20:23 <becca> I SAID COOL
20:23 <Trip> McE, yeah
20:23 <Trip> maybe
20:24 <McEwok> Tern.
20:24 <McEwok> ;)
20:24 * Trip is slow again
20:24 <becca> Ewok...okay.
20:24 <becca> But I get to live near Al-Qion
20:24 * Dunc changes topic to 'Revelation Chat . TOPIC: ????.'
20:24 <Kagari> lol
20:24 <Horsey> I'm ok with Jaina and Mirta being friends
20:24 <Loyal_Imperial> TOPIC: NABOO!
20:24 <Trip> Oh, good topic
20:24 <whiskers> Al-Qadim. :P
20:24 <Bly> I like Mirta, actually
20:24 <Horsey> Let's talk Tahiri!
20:24 <Loyal_Imperial> Okay.
20:24 <Loyal_Imperial> That works.
20:24 <Bly> Sey: ok
20:24 <becca> whiskers - AD&D FTW!
20:24 <McEwok> becca: we'll see.
20:24 <Trip> So this is all the WTFs, right?
20:24 <Kobe> what'll be Tahiri's Sith name
20:24 <Loyal_Imperial> I didn't mind her in this book.
20:24 <Dunc> Yeah, Jaina and Mirta being pals is fine.
20:24 <Kagari> Tahiri needed to have a narrative perspective
20:24 <Horsey> I liked Tahiri in this
20:24 <Loyal_Imperial> Me too.
20:24 <becca> Darth I'm-Tricking-Jacen?
20:24 <Darklighter> pellaeon got the shaft, being axed by tahiri
20:24 <Trip> Jaina and Mirta being pals is not fine
20:24 <Horsey> Darth Villip
20:24 <Dunc> Darth nostaligia
20:25 <Loyal_Imperial> First time I wasn't waiting for her to die.
20:25 <Loyal_Imperial> Darth Vong.
20:25 <becca> Dunc - you win
20:25 <Loyal_Imperial> Vongerella!
20:25 <McEwok> Trip?
20:25 <Kobe> Darth Riina
20:25 <Loyal_Imperial> Darth Vongerella!
20:25 <Kagari> lol
20:25 <Dunc> Ehh, just kill her off.
20:25 <Trip> McE
20:25 <Trip> ?
20:25 <RF> Vongarella is already taken.
20:25 <Horsey> find something that you can turn 'Anakin' into
20:25 <Dunc> Kill them all off.
20:25 <Bly> I was rather irritated by how Tahiri was described as being this blonde bombshell...
20:25 <Trip> (This is so damn hard to follow)
20:25 <McEwok> What's wrong with Jaina/Mirta.
20:25 <Bly> who happened to be a Sith
20:25 <Horsey> all the YJK's?
20:25 <Dunc> Anacanned
20:25 <Trip> Ah
20:25 <Trip> What's wrong with them?
20:25 <Dunc> All the YJKs can die.
20:25 <Loyal_Imperial> Yes.
20:25 <Horsey> lol
20:25 <Loyal_Imperial> Well, most of them.
20:25 <Dunc> Except Jaina., maybe
20:25 <Horsey> Dark Nikana
20:25 <RF> Half already have.
20:25 <Loyal_Imperial> A few are worth keeping alive.
20:25 <Loyal_Imperial> The rest can go.
20:26 <Dunc> If she gets over the mando thing like she did the bugs
20:26 <Bly> LI: Like who?
20:26 <Trip> What's wrong is that the ENTIRE MANDIE SUBPLOT NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED
20:26 <Trip> ahem
20:26 <Bly> keep, I mean
20:26 <Dunc> RF: MORE.
20:26 <Loyal_Imperial> The Wookiee can stay, I guess.
20:26 <whiskers> Trip: I say toned down, personally.
20:26 <Horsey> Jag will knock the mando shit out of her
20:26 <Horsey> I have faith
20:26 <Loyal_Imperial> Didn't really mind him.
20:26 <Kagari> Toned down, yeah
20:26 <Dunc> Not literally, Horsey.
20:26 * darth_sylar has joined #eu
20:26 <Trip> Well, i'm referencing Jaina's involvement
20:26 <Trip> Jaina going to train with fett
20:26 <becca> if it was toned down, though, where would it fit in?
20:26 <Bly> Sey: I don't doubt it
20:26 <Trip> is nonsensical
20:26 <Trip> and utterly indefensible from an IU standpoint
20:26 * Dunc sets mode: +v darth_sylar
20:27 <Loyal_Imperial> My biggest problem.
20:27 <Trip> Like, she never should have gone to Mandalore
20:27 <Trip> period
20:27 <Loyal_Imperial> She went to train with Fett BECAUSE HE WAS A MANDALORIAN.
20:27 <Loyal_Imperial> If anything, it should be because he's the galaxy's TOP BOUNTY HUNTER.
20:27 <Loyal_Imperial> Key difference there.
20:27 <Kagari> haha
20:27 <Trip> That would be vaguely more tolerable
20:27 <Trip> but not really
20:27 <Bly> Aye
20:27 <Loyal_Imperial> She wasn't undergoing bounty hunter training, she was taking Mando training.
20:27 <darth_sylar> And supposedly he is the best Jedi killer in the galaxy.
20:27 <Horsey> she kept repeating because of what he'd done with Jedi
20:27 <Loyal_Imperial> The former would have been more sensible.
20:27 <Loyal_Imperial> And at least vaguely tolerable.
20:28 <Trip> More than mandies, yeah
20:28 <Trip> but again, only very very slightly
20:28 <Loyal_Imperial> If he's the best, then at least it makes SOME sort of sense.
20:28 <Loyal_Imperial> But no.
20:28 <Trip> Since there are a thousand more logical people to go to
20:28 <Bly> Aw, crap, I gotta go
20:28 <Bly> see you guys
20:28 <Trip> Like, oh, Kyle
20:28 * Bly has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC.)
20:28 <Trip> Jag
20:28 <darth_sylar> but what Jedi has he killed?
20:28 <Loyal_Imperial> It has to be because he's the Mandalorian's glorified war leader.
20:28 <Trip> darth_sylar, well
20:28 <Trip> you know...
20:28 <Loyal_Imperial> Kyle would have made sense.
20:28 <Trip> there was that one...
20:28 <Loyal_Imperial> Since he's...
20:28 <Trip> uh...
20:28 <RF> He hasn't killed any named ones.
20:28 <Trip> er...
20:28 <Loyal_Imperial> Killed Dark Jedi, you know.
20:28 <Trip> I mean, well, uh...
20:29 <darth_sylar> my point exactly.
20:29 <Loyal_Imperial> Desann, Tavion, Jerec and cronies....
20:29 <Trip> Well shoot
20:29 <RF> There was that one time....
20:29 <becca> if she wanted unusual fighting styles, let's see. Kyle. Saba.
20:29 <becca> to start with
20:29 <RF> Oh wait, she was a fake Jedi.
20:29 <Trip> he has to have killed a Jedi at some point!
20:29 <RF> Hmm...
20:29 <Trip> I mean, he's boba fett!
20:29 <Trip> RF
20:29 <Loyal_Imperial> Even Korr would have made sense.
20:29 <RF> Yes.
20:29 <Loyal_Imperial> He cut his way through a small army.
20:29 <Dunc> Surprising that hasn't been filled in.
20:29 <Trip> maybe she glanced through Twin Engines of Destruction
20:29 <Loyal_Imperial> Or assumed.
20:29 <RF> What about it?
20:29 <Trip> And didn't notice that it was a fake sith
20:29 <becca> honestly it irritates me that Jaina was a trickster strategist throughout NJO
20:29 <becca> what happened to that?
20:29 <Trip> and that it was Jodo Kast
20:29 <Loyal_Imperial> I didn't mind.
20:29 <Trip> and not fett
20:29 <Kagari> They screwed her over in LotF
20:29 <Kagari> :/
20:29 <Kagari> total
20:30 <LosDosMos> The same thing that happened to Tahiri being over Anakin's death
20:30 <becca> she should have been in the early books more
20:30 <RF> Trip, I meant Empire: Betrayal
20:30 <darth_sylar> right now the best Jedi killer alive in the galaxy is Jacen. He killed Nelani and Mara.
20:30 <Trip> Ah
20:30 <Loyal_Imperial> The whole series needed compacting.
20:30 <Jello> the good Betrayal, then
20:30 <Loyal_Imperial> This felt like a halfway point.
20:30 <RF> Only, Vader killed her.
20:30 <RF> :p
20:30 <becca> because, i see the appeal of having her show up at the end and be kick ass, just take up the reigns closer to the end
20:30 <becca> but...it needed more establishing
20:30 <becca> or at least for Revelation to be as focused on jaina as traitor was on Jacen or something
20:31 * RF imagines Boba Fett as written by Stover...
20:31 <darth_sylar> one of the biggest mistakes I feel was making the timeline all in a few months, not over a few years
20:31 * Loyal_Imperial hides
20:31 <becca> RF it'd be awesome and you know it!
20:31 <RF> Yes. I loved Traitor.
20:31 <Loyal_Imperial> It should have been years, yes.
20:31 * LordHydronium imagines Fenn Shysa as written by Stover...then realizes he won't have to. :D
20:31 <Dunc> I dunno. It seems awfully drawn-out
20:31 <Horsey> I'd rather Jacen wasn't in power that long
20:31 <Loyal_Imperial> Actually...
20:31 <Kagari> darth_sylar, which is why I'm concerned wtf they're going to do with the plot in Invincible
20:31 <Trip> A few months is good if you had authors who can work together
20:31 <Kagari> :/
20:31 <Loyal_Imperial> I'd have liked to see Niathal split four-five books ago.
20:31 <Horsey> at least this way Luke got rid of him in short order
20:31 <darth_sylar> and if the rumors of the length of Invincible are true..
20:31 <Loyal_Imperial> Remnant should've shown up in book three too.
20:31 <Trip> Horsey
20:31 <Loyal_Imperial> 299 pages.
20:31 <Loyal_Imperial> Way too short.
20:32 <Dunc> I think this author musical chair game has really backfired on them.
20:32 <Trip> I'm pulling for the Jacester
20:32 <Loyal_Imperial> Indeed.
20:32 <Kagari> 299 pages?
20:32 <sabarte> Yes
20:32 <Kagari> WTF
20:32 <Trip> 100%
20:32 <Loyal_Imperial> Luckily.
20:32 <Horsey> I know you are, Trip
20:32 <Loyal_Imperial> I think they've learned from this.
20:32 <Kagari> :|
20:32 <Trip> I hope he kills Jaya, the idiot
20:32 <LordHydronium> Eh, more happened in Inferno than most LOTF books to that point.
20:32 <RF> I thought they'd learned from the NJO
20:32 <Dunc> In theory... Yes. In reality, it's just like one bump after another.
20:32 <darth_sylar> its like 3 seperate trilogies, especially when you read the Traviss novels
20:32 <sabarte> They need, like, trilogy, single book while next trilogy's being written, trilogy
20:32 <RF> About plotting everything beforehand...
20:32 <Horsey> they've learned we as fans will buy and read anything
20:32 <LordHydronium> Page count doesn't mean much.
20:32 <whiskers> 299. That is just horrendous.
20:32 <Loyal_Imperial> RF: They did.
20:32 <Loyal_Imperial> They was better.
20:32 <Loyal_Imperial> *This
20:32 <RF> Yes...
20:32 <Loyal_Imperial> Now the next series will be better than this one.
20:32 <Dunc> 299 might be manuscript pages
20:32 <whiskers> Wow, that was some long lag.
20:32 <Loyal_Imperial> NJO was better than YJK.
20:32 <Trip> Wait, what?
20:32 <Dunc> That would come out to more in final layout
20:32 <Loyal_Imperial> LotF beats NJO.
20:32 <Horsey> page count means nothing, Rev was huge and full of shit
20:33 <Trip> lotiff as better than NJO?
20:33 <LordHydronium> I think people are spoiled at how lackadaisical the series has been to this point.
20:33 <Loyal_Imperial> Next series > LotF.
20:33 <Trip> LI, Li
20:33 <Loyal_Imperial> ?
20:33 <RF> Star Wars is 30 years old. They should be good at this by now.
20:33 <Dunc> Anything is better than YJK
20:33 * Trip shake shis head
20:33 <Trip> tsk
20:33 <Horsey> it could've been compacted into a shorter book with better content
20:33 <Dunc> Up to and including The Crystal Star
20:33 <Loyal_Imperial> The NJO bored me.
20:33 <Loyal_Imperial> Terribly.
20:33 <Trip> :P
20:33 <Trip> Fair enough
20:33 <Loyal_Imperial> No suspense.
20:33 <Loyal_Imperial> No excitement.
20:33 <darth_sylar> I hope there isnt a next series. just some trilogies and single novels
20:33 <Loyal_Imperial> Entirely too predictable.
20:33 <Dunc> The NJO was too scattered.
20:33 <LordHydronium> Just because it's moved at the pace of refrigerated molasses so far doesn't mean Denning has to keep that pace to close it.
20:33 <Loyal_Imperial> Little focus on the important stuff.
20:33 <Dunc> Too much going on, too many characters
20:33 <Dunc> TOO. MUCH.
20:33 <Loyal_Imperial> Exactly.
20:33 <Trip> So far as continuity or whatever goes, though, the NJO is a dream compared to loltiff
20:33 <Kagari> NJO got boring in parts
20:33 <Kagari> too many bad authors
20:33 <Trip> See, I like massive casts
20:33 <Trip> See Legacy
20:33 <Trip> the good one
20:33 <Loyal_Imperial> So do I.
20:34 <Loyal_Imperial> I just like them interesting.
20:34 <Loyal_Imperial> I hated half the NJO cast.
20:34 <Trip> Bah
20:34 <Dunc> Okay, okay, we need to get back to Revelation
20:34 <Trip> Actually, it's funny
20:34 <darth_sylar> While NJO had its flaws, I enjoyed it more than I have enjoyed LOTF as a whole
20:34 <Trip> I dislike the majority of the NJO books
20:34 <Trip> but as a series?
20:34 <Trip> It's great
20:34 <Trip> as an event, IU?
20:34 <Trip> Phenomenal
20:34 <Trip> Okay, Revelation
20:34 * Dunc changes topic to 'Revelation Chat . TOPIC: Ben..'
20:34 <Trip> sorry
20:34 <Trip> Hm
20:34 <Kagari> :X
20:34 <darth_sylar> and whats the point of making Tahiri, Caedus' apprentice now?
20:34 <Trip> Ben bores me immensely
20:34 <Loyal_Imperial> NJO another time. Ben = good.
20:35 <Kagari> I wanted to punch Ben
20:35 <Trip> so I shall sit this one out
20:35 <Loyal_Imperial> Detective Ben.
20:35 <Loyal_Imperial> Better than whiny Ben.
20:35 <Kagari> His parts were so annoying
20:35 <Dunc> I like Ben, but the first half ddn't really seem... ummm... all there to me.
20:35 <darth_sylar> Ben is the star of CSI: Coruscant
20:35 <sabarte> I still think he shouldn't have been force-sensitive
20:35 <Horsey> I liked Ben
20:35 <Kagari> lol
20:35 <Loyal_Imperial> Me too.
20:35 <whiskers> Ben was great
20:35 <Darklighter> officer ben, ordering jag and zekk...
20:35 <LordHydronium> I like Ben in 4 out of seven books so far. Give me good news. :(
20:35 <Dunc> He was better once he got to Endor
20:35 <Horsey> no that was how Ben thought of himself
20:35 <sabarte> but that's not really a revalations issue
20:35 <LosDosMos> I'm not sure I buy Ben as a "moral compass" this soon after Sacrifice and Inferno
20:35 <LordHydronium> Ben doesn't remember overhearing Lumiya. What is up with that?
20:35 <Trip> So, why did he forget about seeing Shira & Jacen together?
20:36 <Loyal_Imperial> Maybe he didn't.
20:36 <LordHydronium> That's not just a dropped ball, it's a fucking bowling ball on the foot.
20:36 <darth_sylar> I think this new detective Ben is the answer to non force sensative Ben, since they made him force sensative, they are trying to make it so he doesnt become a Jedi.
20:36 <Loyal_Imperial> I think it's the opposite.
20:36 <Kagari> So I was confused at the end of the book with Ben... with the whole Jacen and the confession where he said Mara came after him first...
20:36 <becca> i think ben had an excellent moral compas in sacrifice
20:36 <whiskers> darth_sylar: I certainly hope not
20:36 <becca> it was...skewed by what he'd beenlearning, but he *was* quesitoning
20:36 <Trip> Kag, that's something I want to discuss
20:36 <becca> and eventually worked out what was going on.
20:36 <darth_sylar> I hope not too.
20:36 <Trip> bring that up again
20:36 <Loyal_Imperial> They're making it so he can become a new kind of Jedi.
20:36 <Kagari> I don't know, maybe it's because I read it at 7 am
20:36 <Kagari> D:
20:36 <Trip> the jacen confession at the end
20:37 <Loyal_Imperial> What about it?
20:37 <Trip> I'll wait
20:37 <Loyal_Imperial> It fits.
20:37 <Trip> until this topic is over
20:37 <Horsey> pfft we already have Corran who's done stuff like that
20:37 <Horsey> he's not a 'new kind of Jedi'
20:37 <Kagari> Like the part
20:37 <Kagari> where Ben said something like
20:37 <Loyal_Imperial> Sure he is.
20:37 <Loyal_Imperial> Not useless.
20:37 <Kagari> .".... and he's not a bad guy"
20:37 <Kagari> or whatever
20:37 <Loyal_Imperial> A Jedi who isn't totally useless, completely new breed.
20:37 <Kagari> total confusion
20:37 <Horsey> the Jedi aren't totally useless now
20:37 <Trip> Horsey, the "Holocron" probably doesn't say Corran's a cop
20:38 <Loyal_Imperial> When was the last time we saw Jedi running law enforcement missions as they did in the OR?
20:38 <Horsey> no, but it should say he WAS a cop
20:38 <Trip> Well, that's what I ment
20:38 <Trip> meant
20:38 <Loyal_Imperial> Or doing something other than keeping track of their own rogues?
20:38 <Trip> it's probably an accidental omission or something
20:38 <Loyal_Imperial> They seem to be spending most of their time cleaning up after their own screwups.
20:38 <Trip> LI, are you... are you a Ruusan Order supporter?
20:38 <Horsey> wasn't he sent on a mission in the NJO because of his CorSec training?
20:38 <Loyal_Imperial> Not quite.
20:38 <darth_sylar> they are doing a bad job of cleaning up, i.e. Jacen
20:38 <Horsey> so it has been used before
20:38 <Trip> Oh, bummer
20:38 <Loyal_Imperial> In a way.
20:38 <Loyal_Imperial> Complicated.
20:39 <Loyal_Imperial> I'll explain another time/
20:39 <Trip> I was about to be excited
20:39 <Loyal_Imperial> I prefer it to the NJo.
20:39 <Loyal_Imperial> Greatly.
20:39 <Trip> I may be the only one
20:39 <Loyal_Imperial> Wait.
20:39 <Loyal_Imperial> Ruusan Order = PT ORder?
20:39 <Trip> Yeah
20:39 <Loyal_Imperial> Then yes.
20:39 <Loyal_Imperial> Very much so.
20:39 <Horsey> so what's the confusion with Ben's evidence?
20:39 <Trip> Oh, sweet
20:39 <Loyal_Imperial> Thought you meant Ruusan itself.
20:39 <Trip> you're forgiven your NJO disdain
20:39 <Trip> :P
20:39 <Loyal_Imperial> 1,000 BBY.
20:39 <Trip> No, I meant Ruusan Reformation
20:39 <Dunc> TOPIC?
20:40 <Loyal_Imperial> Niathal.
20:40 <Trip> Jacen's confession
20:40 <Horsey> Jacen's confession
20:40 <Loyal_Imperial> What about it?
20:40 <Trip> plz
20:40 <McEwok> Has Jacen actually done anything *illegal*
20:40 <Kagari> No?
20:40 <McEwok> I mean, except the Bothans... ;)
20:40 * Dunc changes topic to 'Revelation Chat . TOPIC: Jacen and Niathal.'
20:40 <becca> Yes
20:40 <Horsey> its not the illegality
20:40 <Kagari> At least I didnt think so
20:40 <Loyal_Imperial> Not that I can think of.
20:40 <Kagari> <_<
20:40 <Horsey> its the fact that he's a Sith
20:40 <darth_sylar> he snapped that LT. neck.
20:40 <Trip> Yeah, killing Tebut
20:40 <becca> screwing with the law to change the spirit of the laws of the land = crime
20:40 <Trip> that's about it
20:40 <Loyal_Imperial> So did Vader.
20:40 <becca> at least if it's on a par with USA legal systems
20:40 <Kagari> But the Mara thing
20:40 <LordHydronium> Killing Tebut was awesome.
20:40 <Loyal_Imperial> Don't think that works out as a crime.
20:40 <darth_sylar> and Vader isnt exactly Mr Morals.
20:40 <Kagari> She did technically threaten him first :X
20:40 <becca> you can't just make laws that change laws without approval
20:41 <Loyal_Imperial> If so, then Darth Lawyer can just change the law.
20:41 <Trip> Yeah, the mara thing
20:41 <Trip> okay
20:41 <McEwok> Summary justice may be within the rights of either warship captains or GAG officers.
20:41 <Loyal_Imperial> Probably is.
20:41 <LordHydronium> Jacen needs to freak out and kill people more often. I like him best then.
20:41 <becca> you can commit crimes against the constitution by attempting to implement unconstitutional laws, LI
20:41 <Loyal_Imperial> A holdover from the Imperial era.
20:41 <LordHydronium> Ailyn, Telbut...
20:41 <Trip> he's completely telling the truth in his confession
20:41 <Kagari> lol
20:41 <Trip> so, ...?
20:41 <LordHydronium> Insane murder suits him.
20:41 <Trip> Are we supposed to think he's bad?
20:41 <Loyal_Imperial> GA Constitution is probably different.
20:41 <Loyal_Imperial> I expect that it's looser with that sort of thing.
20:41 <McEwok> Trip: is he? Didn't *he* pursue Mara down there?
20:41 <Loyal_Imperial> Trip: No.
20:41 <Kagari> I didn't think so
20:41 <whiskers> For all we know, Aurra Sing was among those that "disappeared"
20:41 <Darklighter> dictatorhips do seem to have different constitutions...
20:41 <Loyal_Imperial> Don't think so.
20:41 <becca> That's an assumption. In other ways it seems to resemble earth law.
20:41 <darth_sylar> and what was up with him just admitting to anyone he is a Sith?
20:41 <Trip> No, he's in the right
20:41 <Trip> self-defense
20:41 <becca> well...USA and UK type law
20:41 <Trip> Mara was a forking lunatic
20:42 <Trip> She'd lost her shit
20:42 <Trip> totally
20:42 <Kagari> Yeah
20:42 <McEwok> Jacen is... mentally ill, and perhaps brainwashed by Lumiya.
20:42 <Trip> and he says so
20:42 <McEwok> Trip: agreed.
20:42 <Trip> and he's right
20:42 <Trip> So, ?
20:42 <Trip> I guess what I'm asking
20:42 <Kagari> which is what I think everyone realized at the end of the book...
20:42 <darth_sylar> I can't picture Palpisdious sitting in his office telling a random stormtrooper, "Hey, do you know I am a Sith Lord named Darth Sidious?"
20:42 <Kagari> or at least I think
20:42 <becca> most modern democracies make it illegal to willfully change the law so that it's no longer a democracy
20:42 <Trip> is, is Traviss clever than we give her credit for?
20:42 <Kagari> I mean, Jaina did say she wanted to think that Jacen instigated it
20:42 <Trip> Did she mean for Mara to be a deranged lunatic?
20:42 <becca> Sidious, now, he had the backing of the senate...a bit different. That *was* legal.
20:42 <Loyal_Imperial> Unintentionally, if so.
20:42 <LordHydronium> You sound like McEwok. :P
20:42 <Loyal_Imperial> Becca: What I'm attempting to say is....
20:42 <McEwok> It's not *traditionally* illegal in Senate democracy: ref. Palpatine.
20:42 <Loyal_Imperial> In their galaxy....
20:43 <Trip> Hydro, I know
20:43 <Trip> :P
20:43 <Trip> But seriously
20:43 <McEwok> Jacen *was* given his powers by the Senate.
20:43 <Trip> the confessional was weird
20:43 <Loyal_Imperial> I think their history has shown that they've reasons to need to change the constitution more easily than in our world.
20:43 <Trip> Jacen said exactly the impression I got
20:43 <Trip> So suddenly I'm like, eh? Was Mara going crazy intentional?
20:43 * Rohniss has joined #eu
20:43 * ChanServ sets mode: +o Rohniss
20:43 <Dunc> Jacen has clearly not read the evil overlord tip sheet
20:43 <Kagari> lol
20:43 <Horsey> grrr I know Traviss addressed this illegal thing in Rev
20:43 <becca> LI - this government was set up by a group of Rebels massively dedicated to democracy. I severely doubt they'd have no provision for manipulating the law to render it undemocratic being a crime.
20:43 <Trip> Is Jacen supposed to be sympathetic?
20:43 <Kagari> speaking of that scene
20:43 <Horsey> I can't find the quote though
20:43 * Coffee has joined #eu
20:44 <becca> If it's not illegal, it's stupid.
20:44 <Dunc> Horsey: Yes, he tells a droid to change the law
20:44 <McEwok> becca: this government was a wartime kludge in the NJO.
20:44 <McEwok> Trip: it's hard to tell. I agree.
20:44 * Dunc sets mode: +v Coffee
20:44 <Darklighter> call it a legal loophole
20:44 <Kagari> Why during the last few paragraphs did the author use Jacen again instead of Caedus? I was so confused
20:44 <Loyal_Imperial> Becca: Rebels > NR.
20:44 <Horsey> cuz I read it and thought "Gee she must be listening in on our chats cuz its like she's talking to Trip"
20:44 <whiskers> So, well Jaina sneak in through human-sized vent ducts?
20:44 <McEwok> Kagari: did she?
20:44 <Kagari> For like one sentence
20:44 <becca> And using a legal loophole to exploit the law thereby creating a dictatorship would, under any sane legal system, be a crime.
20:44 <Loyal_Imperial> The NR was considerably less...how shall we say...idealistic than the Rebels.
20:44 <McEwok> From what *patchworkz7* says in the spoiler thread, I think that KT *may* be OD'ing on narrative ambiguity.
20:44 <Trip> This government has been shit from the get-go
20:44 <Kagari> I thought it was an error
20:44 <McEwok> To Trip
20:44 <Dunc> So if McE is Denning, who here is Traviss? ;)
20:45 <Trip> McE
20:45 <Horsey> Sabs
20:45 <Darklighter> sith lord logic isn't always sane...
20:45 <McEwok> Dunc.
20:45 <Trip> That's where I got the idea
20:45 <Loyal_Imperial> Trip: Bingo.
20:45 <McEwok> Which was why she asked.
20:45 * Dunc is insulted.
20:45 <Horsey> lol
20:45 <Loyal_Imperial> The galaxy is a screwed-up place.
20:45 <Trip> well, I mean
20:45 <becca> The NR may have become less idealistic, but it was *formed* by the rebels
20:45 <Loyal_Imperial> And rightfully should be.
20:45 <Loyal_Imperial> Formed and changed.
20:45 <becca> USA is less idealistic than the founding fathers, probably, but the founding fathers were the ones who made up the original laws.
20:45 * Coffee has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC.)
20:45 <Dunc> I am not and have never been a Fettlover.
20:45 <darth_sylar> Sisious was pretty sane, IMO
20:45 <Trip> part of what got me thinking about maybe Traviss being more clever than I think