Chat for Legacy of the Force: Invincible
Sunday, May 18th, 2008 / #eu on

20:00 <Dunc> So, what do we think of Invincible?
20:00 <Loyal_Imperial> It was...okay?
20:01 <dgxxx> I'm halfway and it is better than the spoilers says
20:01 <Dunc> I found it rushed.
20:01 <Trip> It sounds like a worthwhile read...
20:01 <becca> I HATE that I love this book.
20:01 <Trip> Just for shits & grins, I mean
20:01 <Loyal_Imperial> The end felt rushed.
20:01 *Dunc raps Trip's knuckles
20:01 <becca> that pretty much sums up my entire feelings about it
20:01 <jawastew> it seemed like denning just wanted to get it over with
20:02 <Dunc> There seemed a lot missing.
20:02 <becca> yeah, the end needed ten more pages and the Daala thing needed not to be there
20:02 <Loyal_Imperial> The earlier parts seemed okay, but the last parts felt really...out there.
20:02 <Trip> Ow
20:02 <Dunc> Like, Corellia? They got what, two mentions?
20:02 <Trip> Poops & grins, then?
20:02 <Loyal_Imperial> Especially the bits with the Moffs.
20:02 *Uli changes topic to 'INVINCIBLE CHAT: NOW.'
20:02 <becca> I was actually okay with it being so compact and brief - just Ben & Tahiri and Jaina & Jacen
20:02 <Loyal_Imperial> And Daala.
20:02 <jawastew> randomly, at the end
20:02 <Dunc> I suspect they're setting something up with Daala
20:02 <becca> But yeah, the Daala thing...
20:02 <Uli> Something Daala-Dick Dastardly?
20:02 <becca> I'm terrified
20:02 <Dunc> At least, I HOPE.
20:02 <dgxxx> Daala -----> Fel dinasty
20:02 <Uli> With Boba as Mutley?
20:02 <Dunc> Because, I mean, this is DAALA.
20:02 <Trip> So, Dunc... were you as amused about Daala as I thought you'd be?
20:02 <Loyal_Imperial> Even offering it to Bwua'tu felt really weird.
20:02 <becca> Because the blurb for the next book is all "under the strong hand of admiral daala the galaxy knows a period of unknown peace..."
20:02 <jawastew> has the Corellian thing been resolved? ...did I MISS that in the series?
20:03 <becca> and I'm like, WTF?!!
20:03 <Dunc> Trip: I did laugh, yes.
20:03 <Trip> (that was the super-mind-blowing spoiler I was trying to tell you the other day)
20:03 <Uli> unknown peace? Does it use those exact words?
20:03 <becca> Dunc - you remember when we told you there was something you'd NEVER BELIEVE it was so INSANE ad you didn't believe us?
20:03 <becca> That was what we were talking about
20:03 <becca> Uli - something like that I'll go find it
20:03 <Dunc> Yeah, I was expecting way wackier than Daala, though
20:03 <Uli> Like Howard the Daala?
20:03 <Dunc> That was just... "Oh, jesus."
20:03 <Trip> I dunno. Daala's pretty wack.
20:04 <Trip> :P
20:04 <Loyal_Imperial> The nanovirus thing kinda came out of nowhere for me.
20:04 <becca> Oh come on, it might not be unbeatable on the *wacky* front but it was way more un*guessable*
20:04 <Dunc> They set up a lot of stuff. :P
20:04 <becca> come on, you NEVER would have guessed that, not in a billion years
20:04 <Loyal_Imperial> I mean, sure, Denning has his little liking for diseases, but that just seemed bizarre.
20:04 <becca> i actually didn't mind he nanovirus
20:04 <Dunc> Alpha Red: Part Duex.
20:04 <becca> it was a bit random but it worked well enough in the story
20:04 <jawastew> was denning the one that did alpha red?
20:04 <Loyal_Imperial> No, don't think so.
20:05 <Trip> No, that was a major NJO plot point
20:05 <Trip> Walter Jon Williams introduced it
20:05 <Loyal_Imperial> He did do the Killik disease thing, whatever they called it.
20:05 <Trip> But it was planned out long ahead of time
20:05 <becca> The Fizz
20:05 <Loyal_Imperial> That was it, fizz.
20:05 <jawastew> too many njo authors, I couldn't remember
20:05 <becca> I thought the nanovirus was at least in keeping with the setting and provided some sense-making reasons to keep Mirta alive and to provide that threat to the Hapans
20:05 <becca> if we're going to pick on crazy shit, I really wouldn't be picking on that one
20:06 <Loyal_Imperial> Well, yes, but the fact that it wasn't ever mentioned before bugged me.
20:06 <becca> Eh...I'm sort of beyond that being a defining problem for this series. :/
20:06 <Trip> The nanovirus didn't sound terribly implausible, given the descriptions later on
20:06 <Trip> It's not a virus, right?
20:06 <Trip> It's just itty bitty robot thingies?
20:06 <becca> it's like...nanobots that kill you
20:06 <becca> yeah
20:06 <dgxxx> so what about Luke's Force illusion? (Invincible)
20:06 <becca> Oh OY, Luke. Where do we BEGIN with him?
20:07 <Trip> 1) He's evil and needs to die
20:07 <jawastew> luke was weird in this one
20:07 <becca> Luke was DAMN weird
20:07 <Loyal_Imperial> Luke is always weird. He was just weirder than usual this time.
20:07 <Dunc> Trip. >:(
20:07 <becca> Luke was Paul Muad'dib rapidly heading towards Leto II
20:07 <Trip> It had to be said. :P
20:07 <jawastew> hahaha becca
20:07 <becca> *but not evil* and that's what creeped me out most
20:07 <dgxxx> "h doesnt breathe and doesnt blink" why nobody painted a mustache on him :D
20:07 <becca> IT'S TRUE AND YOU KNOW IT!
20:08 <becca> Or put fruit on his head when he wasn't paying attention. Did anyone else used ot do that to sleeping old people?
20:08 <becca> Okay...just me...
20:08 <Loyal_Imperial> No...
20:08 *Dunc snorts
20:08 <dgxxx> no..
20:08 <Dunc> Luke just felt... I don't know.
20:08 <Loyal_Imperial> Unlukelike?
20:08 <becca> But seriously - Blazing white eyes and dialogue that goes, "Mine...mine."
20:08 <Loyal_Imperial> Antilukish?
20:08 <Dunc> I think that's one thing that really suffered from the briefness of the book
20:08 <Trip> When does he say that?
20:08 <becca> where have we seen THAT before. (Not my catch, but a pertinent one nonetheless)
20:08 <becca> Trip - I'll find the quote
20:08 <Trip> What's the context?
20:08 <Dunc> Well, the one thing I actually wanted to read
20:08 <Trip> Okay
20:08 <dgxxx> now I'm in the part when Tahiri is torturing Ben
20:09 <dgxxx> and Shevu
20:09 <jawastew> poor shevu
20:09 <Dunc> HE'S FOURTEEN
20:09 <Dunc> FOUR. TEEN.
20:09 <Trip> haha Shevu
20:09 <jawastew> wait, how old is tahiri now?
20:09 *Trip was pleased to hear he died
20:09 <jawastew> i wanted tahiri to die
20:09 <Trip> Tahiri is... 28
20:09 <Trip> I think
20:09 <Dunc> I don't care how hard Traviss sledghammered the 'growing up' bit.
20:09 <jawastew> eep
20:09 <dgxxx> I want her to have a name
20:09 <Loyal_Imperial> Yep. Think so.
20:09 <dgxxx> "Darth hotness"
20:09 <Dunc> He's FOURTEEN and that scene was... ugh
20:09 <jawastew> pedophilia
20:09 <Dunc> yeah
20:10 <becca> See, I didn't mind that scene. It *was* ugh, but Tahiri didn't actually want to be doing it and I don't think she had any intention of going through with it
20:10 <becca> she was trying to find a way not to torture him
20:10 <Trip> Man
20:10 <dgxxx> wow Tahiri with Force Lighting?
20:10 <Dunc> Becca: Yeah, but it was still skeevy.
20:10 <Trip> I forgot that she was 28
20:10 <jawastew> lame
20:10 <jawastew> lame lame
20:10 <Trip> So did the authors, apparently
20:10 <becca> to be honest, the notion that leading him on is less sick than physical torture is...odd.
20:10 <dgxxx> hey no no don't kill Shevu!
20:10 <becca> Yeah it's skeevy but...I think that's the point. It's a horrible situation that neither of them wants to be in
20:10 <dgxxx> :(
20:11 <dgxxx> It's ur fault Trip
20:11 <Dunc> Shevu was plot fodder from day one
20:11 <Trip> :D
20:11 <jawastew> why can't tahiri be plot fodder?
20:11 <Dunc> Oh, Tahiri is too. IMO
20:11 <jawastew> i don't get what she adds to the series... o.O
20:11 <jawastew> another alema
20:11 <becca> Trip - "There /isn't/," Luke pivoted around and glared down on her with eyes that suddenly looked like a pair of sunsblzing up from a dark well. "And it's not your responsibility to worry about those lives. I'ts mine - /mine/, Jedi Solo. Is that clear?"
20:12 <jawastew> sans lekku...
20:12 <Dunc> Denning loves him some YJK/JJK?
20:12 <dgxxx> boners to Ben
20:12 <Trip> Day-um
20:12 *Dunc smacks dgxxx
20:12 <Trip> Lukie's gone psycho
20:12 <dgxxx> :|
20:12 <Trip> Dunc - he sure has an odd way of showing it
20:12 <becca> Trip - context is that Jaina has just asked if there was a way to avoid having to sacrifice people to keep Luke's visions on the straight and narrow so Caedus didn't get onto his maniuplation of them
20:12 <Trip> :P
20:12 <becca> which, you know, is a GOOD THING TO BE ASKING
20:12 <becca> Jaina's basically like, "Is there a way we can avoid these peopel dying just so I can retain the element of surprise?"
20:12 <Dunc> I dunno. I didn't think SbS was all that, either.
20:13 <McEwok> So, Luke's making crazy psycho calls on the basis of Force visions?
20:13 <Loyal_Imperial> Seems that way.
20:13 <becca> Yes, McEwok.
20:13 <McEwok> And Luke gets all Sith eyes?
20:13 <jawastew> they're just dark
20:13 <McEwok> Oh, bloody FUCKING hell.
20:13 <Loyal_Imperial> Err, glowing, sounds like.
20:13 <McEwok> L_I.
20:13 <Loyal_Imperial> Not Sith eyes.
20:13 *McEwok coughs.
20:13 <becca> Well, his eyes are described as dark, like...very dark most of the time
20:13 <dgxxx> tahiri is going bonkers
20:13 <McEwok> Tatooine GHOST
20:13 <becca> then in *this* moment, they glow bright white
20:13 <becca> like leia's tatooine ghost eyes YES
20:13 <Loyal_Imperial> Oh.
20:13 <Dunc> Luke has to have visions to misdirect Jacen.
20:13 <jawastew> dark glowy spectruum
20:13 <becca> he even says "Mine - mine!"
20:13 <Dunc> It is rather Duneish
20:13 <McEwok> He does, becca?
20:13 <Trip> What really sucks is you know nothing will ever come of it
20:13 <becca> McEwok - read the dialogue I typed
20:14 <becca> "mine - /mine/ Jedi solo, do you understand?"
20:14 <McEwok> Whoah.
20:14 <becca> it *can't* be a coincidence
20:14 <McEwok> No, no way.
20:14 <Trip> I mean, I could almost get excited about Luke going... weird
20:14 <Loyal_Imperial> Wait, what was the Tatooine Ghost vision?
20:14 <McEwok> That's... actually making this make more sense.
20:14 <Trip> Except it'll be dropped
20:14 <Loyal_Imperial> Refresh my memory?
20:14 <Trip> Since they'll never let him go "bad"
20:14 <becca> Trip that is EXACTLY HOW I FEEL
20:14 <McEwok> It's the _Tempest_ vision, part 1.
20:14 <becca> because they cannot possibly go anywhere with this.
20:14 <Trip> McE - also the TG vision
20:14 <Trip> Yeah
20:15 <becca> Leia sees a white-eyed sith lord reaching out and saying, "mine, mine," referring to her children
20:15 <McEwok> Trip, yeah, that's what I meant:...
20:15 <Trip> I've been anti-Luke for forever... I should feel vindicated/excited/whatever
20:15 <McEwok> It's explicitly Luke in TG.
20:15 <Trip> Instead I'm just "meh."
20:15 <Trip> Whatever.
20:15 <Dunc> That was in Tempest, too?
20:15 <McEwok> Yeah. When Jacen was looking at the clouds.
20:15 <Loyal_Imperial> Uh, wow...
20:15 <becca> But for the first time, I *BELIEVE* Luke could go evil. Which makes me wish that 1) they hadn't done that already in DE an 2) they hadn't just DONE their big irredeemable evil thang
20:15 <Loyal_Imperial> Is that...a reference, I see?
20:15 <McEwok> What, LI?
20:15 <becca> Hang on - is it explicity luke in TG?
20:16 <McEwok> Yes, becca.
20:16 *McEwok laughs.
20:16 <Loyal_Imperial> LotF referencing past works done well.
20:16 <becca> I thought it was supposed to be the Emperor...
20:16 <Loyal_Imperial> I am shocked.
20:16 <McEwok> Seriously, you people FORGOT this.
20:16 <jawastew> because TG was forgettable
20:16 <becca> I didn't forget it! I just bought it up!
20:16 <Dunc> I haven't read TG in ages
20:16 <McEwok> No, it's Vader, Palpatine, Luke.
20:16 <becca> I figured you KNEW this!
20:16 <Trip> Here, want me to post the quote?
20:16 <Loyal_Imperial> TG is easy to forget.
20:16 <Trip> From TG?
20:16 <Loyal_Imperial> Sure.
20:16 <McEwok> It's initially foreshadowing for DE.
20:16 <Loyal_Imperial> Supposedly.
20:16 <becca> yes, please do
20:16 <McEwok> Though it was a different set of Sith in TUF.
20:16 <Loyal_Imperial> Seems that's been changed again.
20:16 <Trip> " As Chewbacca worked to raise the proper filters, the static faded from a roar to a crackle, then softened to a hiss, which rose and fell in a sharp rhythm. Puzzled by the odd snickering sound, Leia glanced over at the master comm console and found the reception indicator still scanning for signals. She leaned forward against her crash webbing. "
20:16 <McEwok> Of course, who's White Eyes now? Farmboy? ;)
20:17 <Trip> "Han, do you hear..."
20:17 <Trip> No sound came from her mouth. The snicker became a deep chuckle, and a nebula of black gas began to gather in front of the Falcon. Han showed no reaction to it. Neither did Chewbacca, even when it coalesced into the cowl of a Jedi cloak.
20:17 <Trip> "Han! Don't you see..."
20:17 <Trip> Again, her voice made no sound. Glaring out from beneath the cowl, the twin suns looked more than ever like eyes-heartless eyes, full of malice and power lust. Where the cloud was thin, crooked streaks of purple radiance created the impression of a twisted mouth and wrinkled face.
20:17 <Trip> The mouth rose at the corners. "Mine."
20:17 *sabarte has joined #eu
20:17 <Trip> The voice was cruel and distinct and rife with dark side power. Leia gasped-silently-and tried to raise an arm that had suddenly grown as heavy as the Falcon.
20:17 <Trip> The smile became a sneer. "Mine."
20:17 <Trip> Still, neither Han nor Chewbacca seemed to notice what was happening. Leia would have screamed, had her mouth been willing to obey.
20:17 <Trip> The nebula began to thicken, and the purple wrinkles faded behind its inky veil. The twin suns dimmed to darkness, and the black cloud assumed the shape of a familiar mask-a mask of harsh angles and obsidian sheen, framed by the long, flaring neck apron of an equally black helmet. Vader's helmet.
20:17 <Trip> A chill wave of nausea washed over Leia. The curved eye lenses grew transparent, but instead of the blazing brightness of Tatooine's twin suns-or the angry red-rimmed gaze of Darth Vader-she found herself looking into her brother's soft blue eyes. "Luke! What are you..."
20:17 <Trip> o.O
20:17 <Trip> Holy shit...
20:17 <Trip> It /was/ Luke!
20:17 <Trip> Explicitly!
20:17 <Loyal_Imperial> Wow...
20:17 <Trip> I totally forgot this!
20:17 <Loyal_Imperial> Wait!
20:17 <Loyal_Imperial> Denning did TG, didn't he?
20:17 <Trip> Yeah.
20:18 <becca> I don't think Luke will go evil, but it DOES make me like the notion that the reason Jacen killed Luke in all his future visions was because Luke DID go evil. So Jacen saved the galaxy from Evil Luke, and the white eyes and words are a...holdover in between realities?
20:18 <Loyal_Imperial> Then it *is* him!
20:18 <becca> HOLY SHIT
20:18 <becca> you're right
20:18 <Trip> Her question remained as silent as the others she had asked. Luke's eyes grew hollow and hard and haunted, and the helmet moved slowly from side to side. Blue flickers of electricity snaked across the speech circuits behind the respiratory screen, but his words were rendered nearly inaudible by static crackling. Leia made out something about not following and staying out of darkness; then...
20:18 <Trip> ...Luke fell silent again. She tried to tell him that his equipment was malfunctioning, that his voice had been obscured, but before she could find a way to make herself heard, the helmet stopped moving.
20:18 <Trip> Luke locked gazes and held her transfixed for what might have been seconds... or minutes... his eyes now the lifeless blue of ice. Leia grew cold, and frightened, and the mask dissolved back into the black nothingness of space, leaving her to stare out once again into the mind-stabbing brilliance of the Tatoo system's twin suns.
20:18 <Loyal_Imperial> That's no accidental reference, that was definitely intentional.
20:18 <jawastew> maybe luke saved himself from that vision
20:18 <jawastew> by sending Jaina
20:18 <jawastew> instead of doing the deed himself
20:18 <McEwok> Pff.
20:18 <Trip> It's the prologue to TG, even
20:18 <jawastew> since he saw himself going that direction if he went
20:18 <McEwok> Moral hypocrite.
20:18 <becca> that's probably the boring explanation
20:18 <jawastew> ;)
20:19 <Trip> So... Jacen went "dark" to keep Luke from going "dark..."
20:19 <becca> I think the more interesting one is that this is his Sith Self and he was gettting closer to it during the novel
20:19 <becca> and yeah
20:19 <Trip> And, think about it...
20:19 <becca> I think that Jacen stopped that reality by going dark himself
20:19 <Trip> In SW, /you cannot defeat a vision of the future/
20:19 <Trip> You always make it come true but trying to stop it
20:19 <jawastew> i'm not giving jacen enough credit for that
20:19 <becca> Except that Jacen has
20:19 <Trip> Or has he?
20:19 <becca> Well...not really since the vision did come true after a fact
20:19 <sabarte> He's not killing Luke now, f'shure
20:19 <sabarte> :P
20:19 <Dunc> Always? :P
20:20 <becca> I don't believe that Luke will go bad, but we did get him saying those words and such
20:20 <Trip> Hey, sabs... you guys want Annie to be resurrected
20:20 <Loyal_Imperial> sabarte: Unless he comes back from the dead as a Force Ghost. Marka Ragnos and such.
20:20 <Trip> I'm gonna start a "resurrect Jacen!" club
20:20 <jawastew> he's always in the brink of going bad
20:20 <Trip> :P
20:20 <becca> the problem is, as trip identified, they've FINALLY managed to makeme believe this stuff, but there's *nowhere it can go*
20:20 <sabarte> I don't want him to be resurrected
20:20 <Loyal_Imperial> Why not, becca?
20:20 <Dunc> Zombie Star Wars
20:20 <Trip> Ooh... Maybe Jacen didn't see himself in the vision
20:20 <sabarte> I think the Sal-Solo thing was an obvious and natural opportuinity for him to be cloned and a different character to be created
20:20 <sabarte> "boba", as it were :P
20:20 <Dunc> Aaron would love it. :D
20:20 <Trip> Maybe it was Anakin
20:20 <becca> Because there's no way they can possibly do EvilLuke without hitting the following problems:
20:20 <sabarte> and I'm pissed it didn't happen :P
20:20 <Trip> Killing Luke
20:21 <Trip> Maybe legacy!Luke is Anakin?
20:21 <becca> 1) he'd have to be redeemed which would cheapen the whole thing from the outset: no real sense of danger
20:21 <Loyal_Imperial> Not really.
20:21 <Dunc> And again: DE
20:21 <Loyal_Imperial> But continue.
20:21 <becca> no - dude, there is *no way* they'd let him be evil forever
20:21 <Trip> LI - do you /really/ think LFL would let Luke go dark and die?
20:21 <becca> 2) they already did this in DE so it would cheapen the whole thing if it wasn't "for real"
20:21 <Trip> Or just go dark?
20:21 <Loyal_Imperial> All he has to do is isolate himself on Tatooine and go hermit style to avoid contaminating the galaxy with his dark power.
20:21 <Loyal_Imperial> Gets him out of the picture, and they never have to write his death.
20:21 <becca> 3) they just *did* the "main character goes evil and gets killed" epic plot. they can't immediately repeat that.
20:21 <sabarte> Plus he's a force ghost in Legacy
20:22 <sabarte> and fairly farmboy-like still
20:22 <McEwok> Or a Force-projection?
20:22 <jawastew> GL did it... LoTF did it...
20:22 <Dunc> We need a break. :P
20:22 <becca> I mean, really, 9-book series about Jacen goin gevil and dying, let's follow it up with a 9-book series abotu LUKE doing the SAME THING!
20:22 <Loyal_Imperial> sabarte: Two words, Anakin Skywalker.
20:22 <becca> But if they ignore the characterisation in Invincible, then...that's a crying shame
20:22 <becca> and to be hoenst, if they just show Luke "having worked through it," I'm also...gonna be disappointed.
20:22 <Dunc> Maybe we'll finally get an intropective-Luke book
20:23 <Trip> Is that even Luke?
20:23 <becca> it's...a painted-in corner, even though it's *stellar* within the novel itself.
20:23 <Trip> In Legacy?
20:23 <Trip> They never say his name, do they?
20:23 <Dunc> IF (please) they quit it with the big series and just give us standalones
20:23 <Dunc> MF the first...
20:23 <becca> Well, MF at least mentions Luke trying to work out why Jacen went bad
20:23 <becca> we *might* get some sort of revelation there
20:23 <Dunc> Then a Luke and Ben book...
20:24 <becca> Jaina book is needed
20:24 <Dunc> Then something else (probably Fett)
20:24 <dgxxx> they have to explore more the new Jaina
20:24 <Dunc> Jag and Jaina... Zekk...
20:24 <jawastew> Invincible was like a jaina book
20:24 <becca> Yeah, but in terms of post-INvincible standalones
20:24 <becca> plus the way it was written, she's *assumed* the mantle of the sword by killing jacen, not fulfilled that prophecy
20:24 <Uli> Regarding Legacy Luke
20:25 <Uli> Perhaps... if we assume he *did* go dark
20:25 <Uli> When Cade says;
20:25 <Uli> "And that's not a good place for a Skywalker to be *is it*?" takes on a different light?
20:25 <Dunc> Interesting
20:25 <becca> But I just...I can't compute DR actually having Luke go dark. My brain refuses.
20:25 <Uli> Also luke's assertion that: "I know all about the dark side. More than you."
20:25 <Loyal_Imperial> I can.
20:25 <becca> At *this* point, despite how awesome it is in the novel itself, I don't think darkluke is a great idea for the franchise
20:25 <Loyal_Imperial> It makes sense, if one takes it as a way for them to avoid killing him off.
20:25 <McEwok> They've stretched it for too long, though.
20:26 <becca> mainly because LOTF showed they have no capacity to write subtle and note-entirely-evil darkness
20:26 <McEwok> Can we have a poll: who thinks Luke is *already* Dark?
20:26 <becca> Me
20:26 <Trip> Ooh ooh me!
20:26 <Loyal_Imperial> Me.
20:26 <Uli> I don't know
20:26 <Trip> :P
20:26 <Uli> abstain
20:26 *McEwok three
20:26 <Dunc> abstain
20:26 <becca> It's like I said - he's Leto II from DUNE.
20:26 <dgxxx> aye
20:26 <Kobe> Luke is a chair
20:26 <Kobe> :p
20:26 <becca> so that's five yes and two abstains and one chair...
20:26 <Uli> The Siege Perilous?
20:26 <Trip> Well, I don't necessarily mean "dark"
20:27 <McEwok> So... three dark, two abstain, two Leto II, and one chair.
20:27 <Trip> I think it's a silly descriptor anyway
20:27 <Dunc> The YJK quotes
20:27 <Trip> I do think he's, you know
20:27 <dgxxx> hey what about that Invincible book?
20:27 <McEwok> "Eeeeevil"? :P
20:27 <Trip> /bad/
20:27 <becca> And if they want to write him that way, then awesome, but that type of character doesn't really exist in SW
20:27 <Loyal_Imperial> Five dark, McEwok.
20:27 <becca> Okay - Jaina!
20:27 <Dunc> JACEN'S BAD JOKES
20:27 <Loyal_Imperial> She's on the cover.
20:27 <Dunc> They just made me want him to die even more
20:27 <Loyal_Imperial> She uses her lightsaber like a broom.
20:28 <becca> Can I point out that she applied the same pick-and-choose approach to Luke's Jedi Advice as she does to the Mando Advice and for EXACTLY THE SAME REASONS?
20:28 <Loyal_Imperial> You can.
20:28 <becca> And also yes, she uses her lightsaber as a broom. It was very fantasia.
20:28 <jawastew> the jokes were always bad
20:28 *becca points this out
20:28 <jawastew> 14... 30whatever
20:28 <Dunc> I know. But still. Jacen was never cool.
20:28 <Dunc> NEVER
20:28 <Loyal_Imperial> A pity, really.
20:28 <becca> He was cool in Traitor!
20:28 <Trip> liar
20:28 <Dunc> Why mourn? At least they got some use out of him
20:28 <dgxxx> he won the Vong war
20:28 <dgxxx> :P
20:28 <Trip> ( @ dunc )
20:28 <jawastew> he was cool in traitor
20:29 <jawastew> and then it's all downhill from there
20:29 <becca> but was he *cool* while doing it? Was he wearing Sunglasses and a Leather Jacket?
20:29 <Uli> Jacen and Jaina went up the hill?
20:29 <Loyal_Imperial> His term as Sith Lord was his big chance, but it never really went anywhere.
20:29 <Loyal_Imperial> He was always too human.
20:29 <becca> I loved the scene where he killed Isolder
20:29 *Uli blames the authors describing Jacen dossing about reading magazines
20:30 <jawastew> poor isolder
20:30 <jawastew> people died left and right
20:30 <Loyal_Imperial> Yes, that did come to mind when writing that, Uli.
20:30 <becca> that scene was...the way he always should have been portrayed
20:30 *Trip blames the authors making Jacen the most insecure and needy Sith Lord ever
20:30 <Uli> Didn't sacrifice have in him the bath, too?
20:30 <Trip> And by authors I mean Traviss
20:30 <becca> *he doesn't want to kill him*
20:30 <Loyal_Imperial> Think so, Uli.
20:30 <Uli> Or was that some crazy fanfic I read
20:30 <becca> in the bath EATING TAKE AWAY and drawing pictures in the STEAM
20:30 *Dunc snorts
20:30 <Uli> I remember him playing with tassels, in a bath
20:30 <Loyal_Imperial> Darth Mundane.
20:30 <Trip> Are you guys serious.
20:30 <Uli> and I was like: "wait, what?"
20:30 <McEwok> Sounds like _Bloodlines_.
20:30 <Dunc> The tassels just vanished, didn't they?
20:30 <Loyal_Imperial> Yes, Trip.
20:31 <becca> No, I think it was Sacrifice
20:31 <Loyal_Imperial> We are.
20:31 <Loyal_Imperial> Sadly.
20:31 <Trip> Gah.
20:31 <Uli> I mean, Perry had Vader naked
20:31 <dgxxx> the tassels were just.. er..
20:31 <Dunc> Ben was looking at mags in Bloodlines
20:31 <dgxxx> nothing
20:31 <becca> I KNOW WHAT YOU SAW! /RD
20:31 <Trip> I thought Leia and Mara discussing low-fat food was bad enough.
20:31 <Dunc> wait, what?
20:31 <McEwok> The tassels were... completely different in the first two novels, and dropped due to incoherence.
20:31 <McEwok> ?
20:31 <Dunc> Maybe.
20:31 <Loyal_Imperial> Well, that I have no problem with, but the Evil Overlord should not be discussing magazines or taking baths where the reader can see him.
20:31 <Uli> the hassle with tassels
20:31 <Trip> In /Sacrifice,/ Dunc
20:31 <Dunc> I don't mind the magazine thing
20:31 <becca> Well, when planning to murder one's sister-in-law's son, calorie contents is DEATHLY important
20:32 <Dunc> The bath was a bit... :\
20:32 <McEwok> Okay... I gotta go...
20:32 <Loyal_Imperial> Night, McEwok.
20:32 <becca> Bye McEwok!
20:32 <Uli> night McE
20:32 <Dunc> Calorie counts is a bit much
20:32 <becca> Remember how insane Luke is now!
20:32 <becca> Dunc - I do't think they mentioned calories, just "low fat" or something
20:32 <Dunc> ..okay
20:32 <Trip> Bye, McE
20:32 <McEwok> Who knows?
20:32 <McEwok> Who cares?
20:32 <McEwok> ;)
20:32 <dgxxx> night
20:32 *McEwok has quit IRC
20:33 <becca> But really, guys, am I the only one who liked that Isolder scene? I liked how Jacen was portrayed there.
20:33 <Dunc> I like the Isolder scene
20:33 <Trip> "Let's find a stupidly expensive restaurant and forget the fat content."
20:33 *Havac has joined #eu
20:33 *ChanServ sets mode: +o Havac
20:33 <becca> It was really *interesting* for once. Jacen was...more like in Betrayal. He really didn't want to kill Isolder, and tried really hard not to
20:33 <Trip> (Leia)
20:33 <becca> Hav!
20:33 <Trip> That's what I was thinking of
20:33 <becca> you're late for the chat!
20:33 <Loyal_Imperial> Evening, Havac.
20:33 <Dunc> Poor guy got more dignity going out than he ever did in COPL
20:33 <Trip> Also, Jacen orders low-fat take-out for his bathtub scene
20:33 <Havac> Hey.
20:33 <becca> True, he was made into a good character there
20:34 <Dunc> Trip: Oh, that's not so bad
20:34 <becca> Trip, yes he does
20:34 <Dunc> The resturant thing. I remember the takeout
20:34 <Loyal_Imperial> Which page was this again, just out of curiosity?
20:34 <Trip> Yeah, it's not as bad as I was lead to believe
20:34 <Loyal_Imperial> Isolder, that is.
20:34 <Uli> I think that sort of stuff is pretty bad
20:34 <Trip> Stumble told me low-fat is talked about like fifteen times
20:34 <Uli> it's fanfic material, not novel material. IMO.
20:34 <Trip> She tends to exaggerate
20:34 <Dunc> Maybe so.
20:34 <Uli> the novels should focus on the epic
20:34 <Dunc> It's not like Naboo or anything
20:34 <Uli> the mythic
20:34 <Uli> not the mundane
20:34 <Dunc> Speaking of... EXPOSITION
20:35 <Uli> the mundane can be left to the fan's imaginations
20:35 <Trip> I don't mind the mundane
20:35 <Trip> except when it's lame
20:35 <Uli> going to the shitter is the same for everyone
20:35 <sabarte> =YES.
20:35 <becca> mundlame
20:35 <Havac> I like the mundane.
20:35 <sabarte> mythic, not mundane
20:35 <Dunc> How often do we have to hear about Han and Leia and how they're Jaina's parents and they're fab?
20:35 <Havac> You just have to have the mythic too.
20:35 <Uli> The mundane just... doesn't work.
20:35 <becca> many times.
20:35 <Dunc> This is the last book of a nine-book series. WE KNOW.
20:35 <becca> but honestly, i didn't mind it too much on account of i missed leia and han.
20:35 <Uli> It'd be like... like seeing Luke going to throw up after his fight wiht Vader
20:35 <Uli> it's unnecessary
20:36 <becca> plus I thougth it was hilarious that Jaina got outflirted by her sixty year old MOM
20:36 <Trip> Probably because Han & Leia (mostly Leia) are dreadful parents?
20:36 <Uli> and it's obvious padding in novels
20:36 <Dunc> I really hate exposition, period. I was able to overlook it in, say, Betrayal
20:36 <Havac> Becca: that was more Denning oddness.
20:36 <becca> I KNOW
20:36 <Trip> So Denning had to convince us that they're not?
20:36 <Dunc> But by now? WE KNOW.
20:36 <becca> But it at least made me arch an eyebrow and laugh
20:36 <jawastew> for the people that picked up EU at LoTF?
20:36 <Dunc> Less telling, more showing
20:36 <Havac> Denning does that kind of stuff a lot.
20:36 <becca> Hav - you missed it earlier, but you know how luke has blazing white eyes and says "mine - mine"?
20:36 <Havac> Yeah.
20:36 <Dunc> Becca: He can read the log
20:37 <becca> and how there was talk about the TG vision?
20:37 <Dunc> We've moved on.
20:37 <Trip> Yeah, the TG vision is Luke, explicitly
20:37 <Havac> Yeah, I saw that.
20:37 <Havac> It was . . . a cool twist.
20:37 <becca> ah - well read the log then, but basically yeah - Luke. :/
20:37 <becca> yeah, cool enough to mention before returning to the surreality of sixty year old hooker leia...
20:37 <Havac> I didn't mind Luke, really.
20:38 <Havac> He just had this awesome sort of wizard war thing going on against Jacen. Like, constant mental warfare.
20:38 <becca> I LOVED Luke. I just...I hate that none of this'll be picked up on in later books, I don't think.
20:38 <becca> eh, he was weird.
20:38 <Trip> Also, evil.
20:38 <becca> He kept giving Jaina Mando advice.
20:38 <Havac> You always say that, Trip.
20:38 <dgxxx> ok back Crusade is over
20:38 <Uli> Whoa
20:38 <Trip> :P
20:38 <becca> Whoa?
20:38 <Uli> Luke is going Gandalf when Gandalf was going weird?
20:39 <Uli> Wasn't there a bit where Gandalf went really weird?
20:39 <becca> when did Gandalf go weird?
20:39 <Uli> I only ever read LotR once
20:39 <becca> no, he just fought a balrog and died
20:39 <dgxxx> when he was Gandalf the white
20:39 <Dunc> gray
20:39 <becca> then came back. he never went weird.
20:39 <Uli> Didn't he... like become really withdrawn and moody for a while after looking into the orb thing
20:39 <Havac> He doesn't really go that weird.
20:39 <Uli> and scary
20:39 <becca> no
20:39 <Uli> damn
20:39 <Havac> The Palantir? No.
20:39 <Dunc> Galadrial?
20:40 <Uli> I remember her, because the film freaked me the shit out, but that's not what I was thinking of.
20:40 <dgxxx> oh The Clone Wars made the local news :D
20:40 <Dunc> "All shall love me and despair!"
20:40 <Trip> Gandalf went evil, yeah
20:40 <becca> So what do we all make of Jaina, then, and her "drawing on love," schtick?
20:40 <Uli> Was it enar the beginning?
20:40 <Havac> It didn't bother me.
20:40 <Trip> No, it's in the second book
20:40 <Trip> after he dies
20:40 <becca> oh, me either
20:40 <Havac> Love is the candle that . . . . whatever whatever.
20:40 <Trip> then he comes back and is evil and stuff
20:40 <becca> i certainly don't think she went dark or anything so silly
20:40 <Trip> But nobody notices
20:40 <Uli> okay
20:40 <Trip> except me
20:40 <becca> the text was fairly clear in its intentions to be portraying her as doing the "right" thing
20:40 <Trip> I noticed
20:40 <Trip> :|
20:41 <becca> but I think it's interesting that she goes against Luke's explicit instructions?
20:41 <Trip> What were Luke's instructions?
20:41 <Uli> Heh
20:41 <Uli> you know, re; Jaina and love
20:41 <Uli> anyone else got the He-Man She-Ra movie song in their head now?
20:41 <becca> he goes on and on about not letting herself be ruled by emotions of either extreme
20:41 <becca> goes on this whole jag about attachments and how her worrying for her parents is bad she has to trust them to tdo their job
20:42 <becca> and how if she does let herself get rules by love or hate she might end up evil
20:42 <Trip> Ah.
20:42 <Trip> Thanks.
20:42 <becca> to be honest, Jaina is not Luke and Jacen is not Lumiya.
20:42 *sabarte just doesn't like Denning's take on the EU.
20:42 <becca> I'm not sure that Luke was aware of that though...
20:42 <sabarte> It's not...heroic monomyth enough :P
20:42 <Uli> She-Ra as Jaina? :P
20:42 <Havac> I think that Luke was saying whatever he felt he needed to say to get the right result.
20:43 <becca> sabs - that's why we have legacy! :p
20:43 <Uli> He-Man as ... Jacen?
20:43 <becca> I'm not sure how I feel about that though?
20:43 <Trip> Legacy. Feh.
20:43 <dgxxx> dead He-Man
20:43 <sabarte> It's just...
20:43 <Trip> How dare they tie the hands of the novels.
20:43 <Havac> So he doesn't want her to get completely overwhelmed by love, so he warns her strongly enough to make just enough of a point?
20:43 <sabarte> I'd almost like it better if Denning was forced to write in the PT era :P
20:43 <sabarte> exclusively
20:43 <becca> I dunno, that scene came off a little creepy to me, but I think the bigger reason I'm picking up on it
20:44 <becca> is that Jaina considers and discards his advice on enteiring the battlefield, then follows it later
20:44 <becca> she makes judgement calls that *exactly* mirror her thought processes when deciding whether or not to pay attention to Mando advice on being detached
20:44 *Hav has joined #eu
20:45 <becca> And...if Luke is telling her what he wants in order to get the result he wants, regardless of what's most *healthy* for her that' interesting point to note?
20:46 <becca> I dunno. The whole thing is just a bit weird in my head.
20:46 <jawastew> i got that whole.. everyone is a pawn of luke's grand scheme feeling
20:46 <becca> So, votes: BattleSun Odyssey - shout out to Battlestar Galactica?
20:46 <Dunc> Totally
20:46 <becca> Jawa - So did I, absolutely. I'mjust...not sure how to feel about that?
20:46 <Loyal_Imperial> Yep.
20:46 <Hav> Obnoxious.
20:46 <Trip> Ew
20:46 <jawastew> it made me uncomfortable, 1 because i really like luke! and 2 that's.. creepy...
20:46 <becca> the shout out or the pawns thing?
20:46 <Trip> what now?
20:46 <Hav> I prefer it when people can at least be subtle about their allusions.
20:46 *Rob has joined #eu
20:47 <Trip> BattleSun Odyssey?
20:47 <becca> Fair dos. I kinda liked it cus it was a one-time amusing thing
20:47 <Dunc> Yeah, if it becomes a running joke...
20:47 <becca> Trip: Leia snarks when someone says to distract Caedus, "what are we supposed to do, beam down the latest episode of BattleSun Odyssey," or something
20:47 <Dunc> But just for a one-off, it was cute.
20:48 <Trip> Ew
20:48 <Loyal_Imperial> Uh, yeah...
20:48 <Loyal_Imperial> Too obvious.
20:48 <Trip> That's just dumb
20:48 *Havac has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds.)
20:48 <Trip> But then, I liked /The Voyages of the VSD Protector/... :P
20:48 *Hav is now known as Havac
20:48 <dgxxx> the hell? cantina t heme?
20:48 <becca> You know, I kind of wish that Jaina had actually gotten to use her shatterpoint ability after she learned it...
20:48 <Uli> Haha
20:49 <jawastew> why did she learn it?
20:49 <Uli> Kara "Starkiller" Thrace?
20:49 <Trip> Oh yeah, I wanted to ask about that...
20:49 <Havac> That was odd.
20:49 <dgxxx> ohh Ben
20:49 <Havac> I only noticed after I was finished that . . . she never used it.
20:49 <Trip> Did Denning screw up shatterpoints as much as I've heard?
20:49 <becca> Cus Luke offered and you don't turn that kind of thing down?
20:49 <jawastew> chapter filler!
20:49 <Havac> It would have been awesome if she could see Jacen's shatterpoint, but . . . it was completely irrelevant.
20:49 <jawastew> totally useless!
20:49 <jawastew> yes
20:49 <jawastew> yes it was
20:49 <becca> Trip, nto really, he just only spoke about the physical application
20:49 <becca> It could have been a great endgame to the duel with Jacen
20:49 <becca> yeah, exactly
20:49 <Dunc> Chapter filler for a book that otherwise... had no filler
20:50 <Dunc> Weird.
20:50 <becca> like at the end, when she makes amove that she knows will kill him but that he can't counter either
20:50 <Trip> I don't recall Mace ever really using at in a literal sense...
20:50 <becca> ...couldn't that have been a shatterpoint type moment?
20:50 <Havac> Yeah. Denning also did seem to misunderstand it.
20:50 <jawastew> jacen's death was so anti climatic
20:50 <Havac> To be about physical shatterpoints rather than the shatterpoints of events.
20:50 <dgxxx> huh? Why is Ben ordering drinks like James Bond?
20:50 <jawastew> to get a hot date
20:50 <Loyal_Imperial> Skywalker. Ben Skywalker?
20:50 <becca> no, neither do I, but I also don't find that I have a problem with it being literal too
20:50 <Havac> God, that was creepy.
20:50 <Loyal_Imperial> Too many references.
20:50 <Havac> Denning and his twentysomething women hitting on 14-year-old boys.
20:51 <Havac> That was just pervy.
20:51 <Trip> Denning's really random...
20:51 <becca> in my head I'm just pretending that Ben looks about 17... :/
20:51 <becca> like, I don't mind Tahiri so much because that whole situation was screwed up and she didn't actually *mean* it
20:51 <Havac> Yeah . . . .
20:51 <becca> I also tend to assume that the Zel twins are largely just being playful and teasing him to wind him up for a laugh
20:52 <jawastew> yeah
20:52 <jawastew> i agree...
20:52 <Dunc> The twins would have been less creepy if it hadn't been for the Tahiri scene
20:52 <Trip> I don't get why they went with the condensed timeline, if they wanted to do stuff like this...
20:52 <Trip> Not that it matters to me
20:52 <Havac> Well, yeah, the twins are just those people who flirt with everyone as a shtick.
20:52 <Havac> But it's still creepy.
20:52 <Havac> Especially with Time and Earthknight around.
20:52 <Dunc> They were clearly harmless (to Ben) but after... ugh.
20:52 <becca> I honestly find Luke acting like his son IS an adult to be creepier.
20:52 <jawastew> the shower scene was the creepiest for me
20:52 <Dunc> Well, Luke isn't hitting on him.
20:52 <dgxxx> Red hair twins with Ben!
20:53 <becca> EEEW!
20:53 *Movus has joined #eu
20:53 <jawastew> sonisteam or whatever
20:53 <sabarte> as I've said many times
20:53 <dgxxx> *with
20:53 <Dunc> That's an important factor.
20:53 <sabarte> complete lack of forward planning in the EU
20:53 <Trip> Luke considers Ben an adult?
20:53 <Dunc> Hi, Movus
20:53 <becca> Well he repeatedly references him as a Jedi Knight
20:53 <jawastew> Ben says something to that effect
20:53 <Movus> Hi!
20:53 <jawastew> "Thanks for not treating me like a kid"
20:53 <jawastew> blah blah blah
20:53 <jawastew> at the end
20:53 <Trip> 9_9
20:53 <becca> he sends him into a situation where he KNOWS his son will get captured by the GAG because his son made him promise not to give him special treatment
20:53 <Trip> It fits, anyway
20:53 <jawastew> pawn
20:54 <becca> the kid is 14. I don't care what he's done, he's a KID.
20:54 <Trip> Luke can't really handle responsibility
20:54 <Trip> of that sort
20:54 <Dunc> Is that any different than Anakin Solo?
20:54 <becca> He needs a PARENT.
20:54 <dgxxx> why is everyone hittin on Ben? _:P
20:54 <Trip> He's always been like that
20:54 <Dunc> I mean, really?
20:54 <becca> Yes, because Anakin was 16 and everyone kept mentioning that he oughtn't be doing what he's doing.
20:54 <Havac> I don't see a problem.
20:54 <jawastew> only difference dunc, it's his son
20:54 <Trip> Yeah
20:54 <Loyal_Imperial> Me neither.
20:54 <becca> and was 17 by the time he led a mission and even then it was...dubious and that was *discussed*
20:54 <Havac> Obi-Wan was going on missions younger.
20:54 <Movus> In the YJK books, they were all doing as much as Ben is doing at the same age......
20:54 <Trip> With Anakin, it was at least acknowledged
20:54 <becca> It's less that he's going on missions in dangerous environments
20:54 <Havac> Anakin was 14 when he was slicing through Vong on Ithor.
20:54 <jawastew> they did crazy things in the Jedi Academy trilogy
20:55 <becca> I have no problem iwth that
20:55 <jawastew> at like.. 2
20:55 <becca> he was 15, but that's not my problem.
20:55 <Trip> Hav - sixteen
20:55 <Trip> Fifteen, yeah
20:55 <Trip> sorry
20:55 <becca> I KNOW that Ben will be having adventures, that's all fine
20:55 <becca> it's that he gets knighted and effectively, apparently, made independent that bothers me
20:55 *Movus is now known as marasolo
20:55 <Uli> Ben spoke as a man before council before his fifteenth year day - he's Conan.
20:55 <Trip> Like I said, though... it does fit Luke's character
20:55 <sabarte> well, you know
20:55 *Uli pre-empts Hav
20:55 <Trip> D'you remember when he knighted all the YJK in Destiny's Way?
20:55 <sabarte> they wiped out the YJK generation as protaganists to a man
20:55 <sabarte> so
20:55 <marasolo> Conan was kind of funny though
20:56 <Trip> Just... because?
20:56 *sabarte shrugs
20:56 <becca> with the solo kids there was discussion about how they were too young. And Anakin was running off without permission or getting into situations he shoudln't be in
20:56 <Trip> To get them out of his hair, I guess?
20:56 <becca> then at 17 he leads a mission everyone's...dubious about
20:56 <Trip> Even all of them were confused as hell
20:56 <becca> so yeah, it's the fact that he's been Knighted and is off on his own, rather than as a guy under training that bugs me
20:56 <Havac> I would have strongly preferred that he spend more time as an apprentice.
20:57 <Trip> *any time
20:57 <becca> that kid's been through hell, he needs a parent figure.
20:57 <sabarte> They wouldn't have had to do ridiculous "early adulthood" stuff if they'd sanely spaced generations.
20:57 <becca> and *ntohing* in that novel would have needed changing if Ben were referred to as Apprentice Skywalker not Jedi Skywalker. He still could have been sent on the missions he's sent on.
20:57 *becca will drop her pet peeve now
20:57 <jawastew> becca, I think that's what REALLY bothers me about luke using people as pawns... even his kid isn't safe from it
20:58 <becca> yeah, that too
20:58 <Trip> I think what really bothers me is that at this point they're all but yelling LUKE IS A BAD MAN
20:58 <Trip> And people still think he's a perfect hero
20:59 <Trip> (In Lit I mean)
20:59 <becca> and, i have no idea if that's what they're trying to yell.
20:59 <marasolo> Invincible could have used more of what was going on inside Luke's head I think
20:59 <sabarte> ...yeah
20:59 <becca> i actually don't think that he's a bad man. I think that he's...confusing.
20:59 <jawastew> i still like luke..
20:59 <becca> like, I don't believe he's trying to do anything inherently evil. He's *saving* people.
20:59 <sabarte> I think they don't know how to write him.
20:59 <becca> But he's also creeping me out something chronic.
20:59 <Trip> I don't think he's evil. I never really have.
20:59 <jawastew> i think we've needed luke introspection for quite a few books now
21:00 <Trip> I think he's a hypocrite. I think he lacks almost any sort of empathy whatsoever.
21:00 <marasolo> He was totally on the verge of being all evil this time around
21:00 <Trip> I think he's very self-centered.
21:00 <becca> I think the problem is that Luke's character changed mightily between ESB and ROTJ, and ROTJ Luke isn't the farmboy we all want to read about
21:00 <jawastew> err, yeah but he's got more coherence as a character in the trilogy than in the EU
21:00 <sabarte> No, I want to read about ROTJ Luke grown up.
21:00 <Trip> Eh, Luke was kind of a dick in ESB, even
21:01 <sabarte> I'm just not sure the EU has nailed him.
21:01 <marasolo> This was very ROTJ luke, wasn't it? Like you don't know what or why he does stuff
21:01 <Trip> remember when he went AWOL?
21:01 <Trip> Without telling anyone?
21:01 <Uli> AWORY?
21:01 <Uli> damn, missed the L
21:01 *Uli curses
21:01 <becca> Okay, sabs - fair point. I guess what I mean is that it's harder to write ROTJ Luke? He's more complicated? *he's* the one they're getting wrong?
21:01 *RF has joined #eu
21:01 *ChanServ sets mode: +o RF
21:01 <becca> Trip in BFC?
21:01 <becca> I'm readin ghtat now
21:01 <marasolo> I always like the beginning of ROTJ when he gives the droids over to Jabba, very wtf for them
21:01 <Trip> No, in ESB
21:01 <becca> Oh, right
21:01 <Trip> When he goes to Dagobah
21:01 <Trip> He's a squadron commander.
21:01 <Loyal_Imperial> Evening, RF.
21:01 <RF> ESB is on right now.
21:01 <sabarte> Yeah.
21:01 <Trip> And he /sneaks off without telling anyone./
21:01 <RF> Hey.
21:02 <becca> Hey RF! Welcome to the Invincible Chat!
21:02 <RF> :p
21:02 <sabarte> I think I, Jedi did a good job
21:02 <becca> we shoudl probably get back on topic...
21:02 <Trip> He even lies to Wedge.
21:02 <RF> Yeah, he does.
21:02 <RF> That rat.
21:02 <Trip> "Oh yeah, Wedge, sure, I'll meet you at the rendezvous."
21:02 <dgxxx> Ben is with the Hapan girls
21:02 <Trip> This is not something a responsible CO does.
21:02 <jawastew> they've been grappling how to make luke into some jedi grand master
21:02 <jawastew> the transition period has been long and unsuccessful
21:02 <sabarte> Yeah.
21:02 *Trip will shut up about Luke now.
21:02 <sabarte> Well, actually
21:02 <sabarte> they've been trying to kill him
21:03 <sabarte> and never getting permission
21:03 <becca> you'd think they'd have given up by now
21:03 <Trip> Heh.
21:03 <sabarte> so there's this endless cycle of "We can't kill Luke so let's kill X instead"
21:03 <Trip> Maybe that's why the make him meaner and meaner.
21:03 <Trip> More and more unlikeable.
21:03 <jawastew> he's supposed to rebuild the jedi order and nothin's working in that direction
21:03 <Trip> There's a shadow-war between the licensees and the bigwigs.
21:03 <becca> So I have to admit, I was more affected by Jaina holding Jacen's corpse than I thought I would...
21:03 <jawastew> jedis dying left and right, goign to the dark side
21:03 <Trip> Eventually, one of them will break!
21:03 <RF> Conspiracy theory?
21:03 <RF> :p
21:03 <becca> yeah, plus he keeps rebuilding it more and more liek the OJO which...failed.
21:04 <becca> it's a sort of weird metatextual issue - as we find out more about the OJO, we make Luke's JO more like it!
21:04 <jawastew> they do that with everything though
21:04 <Trip> Well, to be fair, his NJO was pretty fucked up right at the beginning
21:04 <RF> I think that's because the authors see the PT, and they're like "woah" and then they put stuff into the NJO.
21:04 <marasolo> Which I hate!
21:04 <dgxxx> Double X?
21:04 <jawastew> as the PT stuff comes into light, it's wormed into the EU
21:04 <becca> ditto
21:04 <jawastew> as if it's always been there
21:04 <RF> Yes.
21:04 <sabarte> I don't know
21:04 <RF> That gets annoying.
21:04 <sabarte> The YJK generation is gone
21:04 <becca> It doesn't make sense either
21:04 <jawastew> and it's irritating
21:04 <RF> The PT doesn't have to be everywhere.
21:04 <sabarte> Ben doesn't -have- a generation
21:04 <sabarte> Yes.
21:04 <becca> I miss mulitcoloured lightsabers!
21:04 <dgxxx> who's double x?
21:04 <sabarte> The PT needs to stay in the PT
21:05 <jawastew> yes
21:05 <jawastew> it does
21:05 <Trip> Eh
21:05 <becca> dgx - the torture droid
21:05 <dgxxx> oh
21:05 <Trip> Again, i think it makes some sense
21:05 <Trip> IU
21:05 <jawastew> suddenly naboo is everywhere
21:05 <jawastew> and shatterpoint, REALLY?
21:05 <jawastew> come on
21:05 <becca> yeah, because they find out more and mimic it, but that just shows that they're sheeeeep.
21:05 <Trip> The NJO was originally modeled on the KotOR-era order
21:05 <Trip> From Arca & Nomi's time
21:05 <becca> I liked the shatterpoint thing! the only thing wrong with it is that Jaina never used it in her final duel with Jacen!
21:05 <RF> Shatterpoints are as old as the ANH Radio Drama...
21:05 <Trip> Which... was pretty godawful
21:05 <becca> Oh I love that thing!
21:05 <RF> Mace Windu style Shatterpoints, I mean.
21:05 <RF> Vader mentions them.
21:06 <RF> Though he doesn't call them shatterpoints.
21:06 <becca> in his awesome RD voice.
21:06 <jawastew> that's why I don't like it.. she didn't even use it
21:06 <Trip> So it makes sense that Luke would adopt stuff from the Ruusan Order as he finds out about it.
21:06 <jawastew> so it was just put in there
21:06 <jawastew> to have it in there
21:06 <RF> So Obi-wan's death may be a shatterpoint.
21:06 <RF> Which I really like.
21:06 <Trip> RF - apparently (from what I'm told) Denning's shatterpoints are literal
21:06 <RF> Yes.
21:06 <Trip> Like, Luke can shatter stuff.
21:06 <RF> I know.
21:06 <Trip> 9_9
21:06 <RF> But I'm talking real shatterpoints. :p
21:06 <RF> Force Shatterpoints.
21:06 <becca> I think that perhaps he put it in there in an effort to power up Jaina a bit, to start getting her some respec' and jedi street cred
21:06 <RF> Vader calls it a "nexus in the Force" or something like that.
21:07 <becca> but really, she sould have used it against jacen
21:07 <Trip> Yeah, I remember that.
21:07 <marasolo> Vader liked his drama
21:07 <jawastew> probably becca
21:07 <becca> yeah, a nexus in the force with many possible futures or something
21:07 <Uli> RDarth Vader is my father
21:07 <jawastew> if she had exploded jacen
21:07 <Uli> I hope
21:07 <jawastew> into a million pieces
21:07 <becca> RadioDramaVader > ALL THINGS EVER
21:07 <jawastew> that would have been good
21:07 <becca> Uli: And mine.
21:07 *Uli high fives
21:07 <marasolo> There wouldn't have been anything for her to hold dramatically though
21:07 <becca> You should change our family tree to reflect this.
21:07 <jawastew> the pieces!
21:07 <Uli> I have
21:07 <Trip> ANHRadioDramaVader > All things ever
21:07 <becca> yay!
21:07 <Trip> :P
21:07 <Uli> that's what it already says
21:08 <Uli> ESB RadioDramaVader is awesome too
21:08 <becca> Trip - okay, amendment accepted though he was still cool in ESB
21:08 <Trip> Eh, he was too spazzy for me
21:08 <becca> marasolo: the Shatterpoint ability ought to apply to moments in time and people too
21:08 <becca> this si the first time it'sonly been used on items
21:08 <Trip> Not laconic enough
21:08 <Uli> "ASTROIDS DO NOT CONCERN ME ADMIRAL! I want that SHIP not excussesssss!"
21:08 <marasolo> That'd be cool
21:08 <becca> so she could have seen the shatterpoint of the fight, for instnace
21:08 <marasolo> Ahhhh
21:08 <Uli> Red hot angry Vader was awesome.
21:08 <becca> brb
21:09 <Trip> marasolo - basically, shatterpoints are not what Denning thinks they are. :P
21:09 <Trip> Although they are now.
21:09 <Trip> I guess.
21:09 <marasolo> Neither of us got the memo on it :-P
21:09 <Uli> all he did was extend the meaning
21:09 <Uli> *shrug*
21:09 <Uli> you can see them in the Force and in physical objects now
21:09 *Uli shrugs
21:09 <Uli> it's not really a huge concern, I don't think
21:09 <Trip> No, I don't have a problem with it in general
21:10 <marasolo> Isn't that how the whole SW story goes? Things like that embellished now and then?
21:10 <marasolo> Whether or not you like it...
21:10 <jawastew> that's eu! take the idea and run with it
21:10 <jawastew> run it into the ground..
21:10 <Uli> "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force"
21:11 <Uli> KJA "Hmmmmmm"
21:11 <marasolo> lol
21:11 <jawastew> yes...
21:11 *Uli is now known as Uli|BriefStudy
21:12 <Havac> I want to see Jaina use shatterpoint to destroy a planet now.
21:12 <Havac> *poke*
21:12 <becca> yeah, like, she goes to the polar ice cap and...tap
21:12 <Havac> *BOOM!*
21:12 <becca> crumble
21:12 <jawastew> jaina.. the new death star
21:12 <becca> so what did everyone make of jacen's death aside from the lack of shatterpoints?
21:12 <marasolo> *That's* what he meant by sword of the jedi...
21:13 <becca> i wasn't...thrilled by the needles.
21:13 <jawastew> hahaha
21:13 <becca> that was just silly and really distracted me...
21:13 <jawastew> couldn't you picture that though?
21:13 <jawastew> lol
21:13 <jawastew> yeah
21:13 <Trip> lol
21:13 <jawastew> only good thing about it
21:13 <Trip> I love Denning's sight gags
21:13 <marasolo> ICk
21:13 <Trip> And by love I mean love/hate
21:13 <RF> Syringes?
21:13 <Trip> they somehow amuse me more than Allston's
21:13 <jawastew> by that point, he just needed to die
21:13 <jawastew> it was boring
21:13 <becca> yeah, needles syrninges...whichever
21:13 *Trip thinks of Aurra Sing in a top hat and chortles
21:13 <becca> it was...silly
21:14 <marasolo> Definitely on the bizarre side
21:14 <jawastew> it wasn't big battle in anticipation because he'd already been half destroyed halfway through the book
21:14 <becca> i wish the fight had been longer, honestly, since hte first fight had jaina powered up by luke
21:14 <jawastew> "Oops, can't kill him now.. we have another 200 pages to write.."
21:14 <marasolo> They had to keep the page count under 300
21:15 <marasolo> Which was a bummer
21:15 <becca> i mena, i'm picking at random things that I'd have liked for preference rather than serious complains, but I wish that the twins had *spoken*
21:15 <Trip> So... "Boba" is effectively exiled from Mandalore, eh?
21:15 <RF> Good. Now he can go retire.
21:15 <becca> you know, "Jacen, you were my brother, I loved you!"
21:15 <Trip> Isn't that just a teens bit *convenient* for certain parties?
21:15 <RF> Like he was supposed to. 20 years ago.
21:15 <Trip> :D
21:15 <Trip> *teensy
21:16 <becca> marasolo - you know that for a fact? any reason why it couldn't be longer than three hundred?
21:16 <marasolo> I was jk
21:16 <becca> aaah, okay, sorry!
21:16 <jawastew> I'm going to be Mirta Gev for halloween!
21:16 <Trip> Certain parties who are gay?
21:16 <Trip> And surnamed Beviin?
21:16 <Trip> :D
21:16 <marasolo> Sorry.... I got it on Tuesday and was going to finish it then, but didn't want the last book to be done in a day.. So i finished it yesterday
21:16 <becca> "boba" won't retire though. because as we keep getting told the mandos aren't tied to mandalore
21:16 <becca> so he can just be mandalore and have even MORE angst. oh JOY
21:16 <jawastew> he could retire
21:16 <Trip> No
21:17 <Trip> It means that Goran Beviin can now step in as Mandalore
21:17 <marasolo> Oh but his angst and joy was soo much fun
21:17 <Trip> after his pawn played his part in reuiniting the clans
21:17 <RF> Hahahahaha
21:17 <becca> his clones pawn
21:17 <Trip> all is proceeding as Krayt has forseen...
21:17 <Trip> :D
21:17 <becca> cloned
21:17 <marasolo> Felt bad for the guy that had the crush on Jaina...
21:17 <Trip> Except, Beviin doesn't want to be a Sith stooge
21:17 <marasolo> and Zekk
21:17 <Trip> Because who else gets killed in the plague?
21:17 <becca> yeah, I really REALLY hope that Zekk doesn't come back evil. that woudl be utterly lame.
21:17 <Trip> Oh, yeah. Venku.
21:17 <becca> Trip we have no idea
21:18 <becca> like really
21:18 <marasolo> And already done for him
21:18 <Trip> His Sith watchdog!
21:18 <Trip> :D
21:18 <Loyal_Imperial> He already did evil.
21:18 <sabarte> I suspect Venku will live
21:18 <becca> no, venku will probably be saved by that doctor jedidude
21:18 <RF> Bah. The Fett "family" is boring.
21:18 <dgxxx> an Imp is going to tell Jacen about the nanovirus
21:18 <Loyal_Imperial> Yeah.
21:18 <sabarte> It'd be almost appropriate if he didn't
21:18 <marasolo> They could always come up with a cure for it
21:18 <sabarte> but...
21:18 <Trip> Yep. But, he'll now know that Beviin is trying to double-cross the Sith.
21:18 <RF> I think it'd be hilarious if Fett wrote his memoirs.
21:18 <Trip> So: cue Mandalorian Civil War!
21:18 <Trip> :D
21:19 <RF> And lived off the proceeds for the rest of his life.
21:19 <RF> :p
21:19 <Trip> heh
21:19 <sabarte> another random radio drama note:
21:19 <becca> he already has enough moeny to live for the rest of his life...
21:19 <Trip> "I remember when I was a boy, I had an eel..."
21:19 <RF> "Boba Fett: The Last One Standing"
21:19 <sabarte> Lando still needs to kill Fett, like he promised
21:19 <RF> Yes.
21:19 <becca> yes.
21:19 <jawastew> was lando mentioned in lotf at all?
21:19 <sabarte> yes
21:19 <becca> yes
21:19 <RF> Allston.
21:19 <Trip> yes. :|
21:19 <becca> the Looooooove Commander
21:19 <Trip> He had a pimp cane.
21:19 <marasolo> hehe
21:19 <jawastew> oh!
21:19 <jawastew> haha!!!
21:19 <jawastew> yes
21:19 <Trip> :| :|
21:19 <jawastew> okay
21:19 <RF> "Power cane"
21:19 <jawastew> i remember
21:19 <becca> he was also briefly in fury
21:19 <RF> :p
21:20 <RF> I'm hoping he'll be in Falcon.
21:20 <becca> he gave Han his ship to help fight fires on kashyyyk
21:20 <becca> me too
21:20 <RF> Since, you know, he was the owner of it.
21:20 <RF> :p
21:20 <marasolo> The Falcon preview totally killed the suspense over Allana though
21:20 <Trip> "I loved that eel. I remember, when my Dad would leave me alone, I would take it from its cage and hug it until I fell asleep."
21:20 <jawastew> i haven't read the falcon preview
21:20 <RF> Eh.
21:20 <becca> but that's because I'm hoping that Falcon will ACTUALLY be a Han/Lando old man buddy movie with Allana thrown in for a two-men-and-a-baby feel
21:20 <Trip> "I'd sometimes sing to it, softly..."
21:20 <jawastew> I'm assumign it's chronologically after lotf right?
21:20 <RF> Yes.
21:21 <becca> we don't know when its set, but afterwards, yes
21:21 <jawastew> disappointing..
21:21 <becca> i hope ony like...a year
21:21 <jawastew> shoulda been an OT thing
21:21 <RF> No, not disappointing.
21:21 <RF> Its a chance to redeem this era.
21:21 <becca> i'm tired of these five years jumps. Jaina'll be OLD by the time she does anything
21:21 <Trip> "Buc'ye jeti'i eeely"
21:21 <becca> I agree
21:21 <Trip> "dar'manda sey cho"
21:21 <becca> though the mention of daala as positive in that blurb worries me
21:21 <RF> And by this era I mean "early Legacy era"
21:21 <jawastew> err, in 1 book? i don't think so
21:21 <Trip> "dan'we'for tre'tas"
21:21 <RF> Not whole Legacy era.
21:21 <RF> No, not in one book.
21:21 <Trip> "ley'tor sey goh"
21:21 <RF> But it could be good.
21:21 <RF> Also, ponies.
21:21 <RF> :p
21:21 <Trip> That was rock-a-by-eely in mandoese
21:21 <becca> it could make the prospect of future books better
21:21 *Trip bows
21:22 <RF> Really, though.
21:22 <Trip> RF - nothing can redeem LotF
21:22 <RF> We have an awesome book schedule lined up now.
21:22 <RF> Mindor.
21:22 <RF> Coruscant Knights.
21:22 <RF> Falcon.
21:22 <becca> A Han and Lando Buddy Movie Book TOTALLY would redeem large parts of it.
21:22 *becca is stubborn
21:22 <RF> And then there's Order 66 and the Clone Wars novels.
21:22 <jawastew> i'm with u there becca..
21:22 <Trip> Well, TBH
21:22 <RF> Who knows how thosell be.
21:22 <RF> And TFU.
21:22 <Trip> I'm pretty much totally turned off to SW books...
21:22 <RF> So am I.
21:22 <sabarte> I dunno about Coruscant Nights
21:23 <jawastew> what's the timeline for those?
21:23 <Trip> I'm not even like disdainful or anything
21:23 <Trip> just wholly meh
21:23 <RF> Dark Times era.
21:23 <sabarte> But Mindor will probably be good for those who like that stuff
21:23 <Trip> I can't even get fired up about Mindor
21:23 <jawastew> thank you
21:23 <marasolo> I'm meh to the prequel stuff
21:23 <RF> You don't like Luke.
21:23 <becca> I'm looking forward to Mindor and MF. Coruscant Nights I'll...consider buying. I'm not a huge PT era fan but...PULP!
21:23 <RF> :p
21:23 <sabarte> and I'll read anything with Luceno's name on it.
21:23 <Trip> Yeah, but I love Stover.
21:23 <becca> O66 I won't buy
21:23 <RF> Order 66 will piss people off.
21:23 <Trip> It's just... meh. Whatever.
21:23 <RF> Clone army numbers? Check.
21:23 <dgxxx> Disk 3 finished
21:23 <becca> when are these clone wars novels coming out and are these the Karen Millar/Karen Traviss teamup books?
21:23 <RF> Massive retcons? Check.
21:23 <jawastew> i think I'm the only one who likes the commandos..
21:24 <sabarte> The first clone wars novel is in late July, right?
21:24 <RF> Unnecessary crap? Check.
21:24 <Trip> We don't know much, only that Traviss is doing the novelization of the movie.
21:24 <sabarte> That's Traviss
21:24 <jawastew> and looking forward to 066...
21:24 <RF> Kriffing with Fenn Shysa? Check. :|
21:24 <sabarte> Hopefully without clone numbers...
21:24 <Dunc> I don't read prequel books.
21:24 <becca> oh, the novelisation of the cartoon?
21:24 *whiskers has joined #eu
21:24 <dgxxx> I bet they choose her cause of the REvelation sell figures
21:24 <becca> neither do I mostly.
21:24 <becca> dg doubtful since they only got those in february
21:24 <dgxxx> oh :|
21:24 <dgxxx> then they can see the future
21:24 <sabarte> Traviss writes really fast
21:25 <becca> ...good point
21:25 <RF> She's done with O66 already.
21:25 <sabarte> Easier for her to fit another book in
21:25 <dgxxx> Invincible
21:25 <RF> And probably with CW already.
21:25 <RF> So, yeah.
21:25 *Dunc scrambles for Invincible topic
21:25 <sabarte> While Allston might be late with it like he was with Betrayal, and there's no time :P
21:25 <Dunc> What hasn't been covered?
21:25 <RF> Nothing. :p
21:25 <Dunc> Jag?
21:25 <jawastew> zekk
21:25 <becca> Jaina's scene after jacne's dead?
21:25 <RF> Easter eggs?
21:25 <jawastew> who thinks he's dead?
21:25 <becca> that whole chucking jag at the wall thing?
21:25 <becca> I don't think he's dead
21:25 <whiskers> I figure this IRC stuff out and it's almost over...
21:26 <whiskers> :)
21:26 *RF changes topic to 'Zekk "I have No Last Name" Zekk.'
21:26 <Trip> You didn't miss much
21:26 <becca> but I really hope he doesn't come back evil
21:26 <Havac> He's not dead.
21:26 <Trip> And yeah, he's not dead.
21:26 <sabarte> What's with Jaina and throwing people into walls in LOTF?
21:26 <Havac> I really, really don't want him evil, though.
21:26 <Trip> Duh.
21:26 <Trip> It's /Denning/
21:26 <becca> because coming back evil would be such a cliche
21:26 <dgxxx> well I'm in the part where Jacen talks with Mirta
21:26 <jawastew> but he did the evil thing already
21:26 <sabarte> It's really...immature of her
21:26 <RF> He better not be evil.
21:26 <Havac> Though I do like the idea of Ship picking him up.
21:26 <RF> That's so damn cliche.
21:26 <Havac> It makes sense.
21:26 <dgxxx> and the doctah takes a sample to make the AntiFett virus
21:26 <becca> to be fair to her at the time, sabs, she's gone mad with grief.
21:26 <sabarte> That'd be YJK villain number....4.
21:26 <sabarte> Seriously
21:26 <sabarte> why don't they make Corran evil?
21:26 <Trip> I like the idea of them finding his corpse and creating a /ghoula/
21:26 <RF> :p
21:26 <sabarte> it would make just as much sense.
21:26 <Dunc> We never did find out what happened to Ship... And he had that weird darkside moment....
21:26 <Trip> the first Knight Draco
21:27 <RF> Because Horsey would go nuts.
21:27 <jawastew> it was a bad batch of baby jedis
21:27 <becca> I don't mind so much him being found by Ship
21:27 <dgxxx> yeah we needed toknow more about Zekk
21:27 <RF> So...
21:27 <RF> We're shipping Ship/Zekk? :p
21:27 <becca> but I mind him going evil easily because...he's Zekk. He' upstanding about that despite being very vulnerable
21:27 <jawastew> there were a lot of things that were introduced and then just dropped in LoTF
21:27 <dgxxx> good one RF
21:27 <Trip> I 'ship Ship/Ship
21:27 <Trip> myself
21:27 <Havac> I'd like it if Ship grabbed him, but he resisted turning and came back to do his own thing.
21:27 <Havac> But Zekk is too much of a straight-arrow.
21:27 <Havac> I /like/ that about him.
21:27 <dgxxx> he is a talkin tree
21:27 <Havac> I wouldn't want him to lose it.
21:27 <becca> And he's of the few Jedi Knights from that generation we have LEFT
21:27 <Dunc> Jawastew: Not dropped. Plotpoints they're saving for later. :P
21:27 <Trip> Uh... I dunno about that
21:27 <Uli|BriefStudy> And he can come back and Jaina can say: "What happened?"
21:28 <becca> Hav - that's exactly how I feel
21:28 <Uli|BriefStudy> and he can go: "I found a new ship"
21:28 <Trip> Zekk's a straigh-arrow because, inside, he's batshit crazy
21:28 <Uli|BriefStudy> and all teh fanboys/girls can laugh
21:28 <Dunc> But that generation was mostly fail
21:28 <RF> They all fail.
21:28 <Trip> He's so hardcore good because he /can't/ let the facade crack
21:28 <becca> I don't wnt him evil
21:28 <sabarte> Zekk already went evil
21:28 <jawastew> plotpoints blah blah blah
21:28 <sabarte> he's over it.
21:28 <RF> Yes. He had his cape.
21:28 <Trip> I thought Fury established that pretty conclusively...
21:28 <sabarte> Yeah
21:28 <marasolo> His only purpose in life now is to pointlessly chase Jaina
21:28 <sabarte> the YJK all fail. :P
21:28 <becca> but Zekk while perhaps not interesting, was at least solid, stabe and *there* to be used
21:28 <jawastew> no, he's over that too
21:28 <sabarte> They've been written out of the story in favor of Ben
21:28 <sabarte> a shame.
21:28 <jawastew> maybe he will go bad
21:28 <becca> and they don't seem able to create new characters sooooo
21:28 <Trip> But he wasn't stable...
21:28 <Havac> Trip: it's true that it's always a struggle.
21:29 <Havac> I can buy him losing his struggle.
21:29 <Havac> I just . . . don't want to have to.
21:29 <RF> I hate that idea, though.
21:29 <becca> but it wouldn't be that interesting to me
21:29 <becca> yeah
21:29 <becca> it's...really cliche
21:29 <RF> Why must Jedi always struggle with the dark side internally.
21:29 <Trip> Seriously, didn't /Fury/ pretty much show that he's a seething mass of anger and such and he just keeps it buried?
21:29 <RF> Its boring.
21:29 <RF> And been done to death...
21:29 <becca> Trip, actually no. I didn't get that frm Fury at all
21:29 <RF> I want a good Jedi be good.
21:29 <Trip> Oh
21:29 <becca> ditto
21:29 <RF> Like Zayne.
21:29 <Trip> Meh.
21:29 <becca> yeah
21:29 <sabarte> Yes.
21:29 <becca> Zekk strikes me more as a Zayne type.
21:30 <becca> And dammit, if they want jaina with jag, just have her kriffing choose jag!
21:30 <RF> Hm.
21:30 <Trip> Jacen was a Zayne type...
21:30 <RF> I'd really like that.
21:30 <RF> Zayne's jokes are not that corny...
21:30 <RF> :p
21:30 <marasolo> Now Jag will be too busy for her... sad and funy
21:30 <Trip> True. :P
21:30 <marasolo> funny
21:30 <becca> I'd totally read the adventures of Zekk and his Evil Ship trying to get home.
21:30 <dgxxx> wow
21:30 <marasolo> Good idea becca
21:30 <Trip> I want Ship to find Ship
21:30 <Trip> And they can have baby Ships
21:30 <dgxxx> hmm Jaina is fighting with Zekk and JAg..that's.. perv
21:30 <becca> hang on, how many ships are there?
21:30 <marasolo> And a ship lullaby?
21:30 <Uli|BriefStudy> Jaina/Jag
21:30 <Trip> There's that Ship from marvel
21:30 <Trip> The Vong ship
21:30 <Uli|BriefStudy> Jaina/Zekk
21:31 <Trip> named Ship
21:31 <Uli|BriefStudy> Ben/Tahiri
21:31 <becca> oh, okay
21:31 <Uli|BriefStudy> Urm
21:31 *Uli|BriefStudy stops
21:31 <Trip> The one Luke and Leia get stuck on
21:31 <Trip> Marvel #38, I think
21:31 <Uli|BriefStudy> with the tentacles!
21:31 <marasolo> Tentacles are always good
21:31 <Uli|BriefStudy> and leia being... uh, on the ground
21:31 <RF> Yes.
21:31 <RF> :p
21:31 <RF> That Ship.
21:31 <Trip> Yeah, so Ship and Ship can have little Ships
21:31 <jawastew> ship empire?
21:31 <Trip> A Ship plantation!
21:32 <RF> No, that's when they meet Vuffi Raa's people.
21:32 <becca> also - re: the last lines of the book, I thought it was a little creepy that han and leia were all, "Look! We got you a new sister!"
21:32 <Trip> It'll be a... ship sensation...
21:32 <becca> not like, "Here's your niece..."
21:32 <marasolo> That was freaky
21:32 <Trip> What now?
21:32 <Dunc> Oh, and Amelia? Bad, bad name
21:32 <jawastew> "Amelia"
21:32 <RF> "We're old, but we can still pop em out!"
21:32 <jawastew> yes
21:32 <Havac> That's just stupid.
21:32 <jawastew> bad
21:32 <Trip> XD @ Leia
21:32 <Dunc> Like, bad fanfic name.
21:32 <marasolo> Yes, I hope it goes away
21:32 <Trip> Poor Allana
21:32 <becca> Yeah. But she's referred to as Allana in the MF blurb
21:32 <RF> Dunc, all names are bad fanfic names. :p
21:32 <becca> so hopefully it'll be Amelia as a cover, but Allana in private
21:32 <Havac> Like no one is going to connect the kid who looks like a little Jacen and has an A-name suddenly living with the Solos.
21:33 <marasolo> "Our next children..."
21:33 <whiskers> Becca: I thing, or at least hope, that's the way it's going to be
21:33 <jawastew> well she's got a wig
21:33 <Havac> Trip: Leia is Gollum?
21:33 <Trip> Yes.
21:33 <marasolo> She just needs plastic surgery for her nose
21:33 <becca> Actually, I don't think that's such a problem. Leia took a padawan. No one knos Jacen had a kid or suspected it was allana
21:33 <becca> so...that's less of a prblem. she takes a padawan, and cus said padawan is an orphan gets legal custody of her. Meh
21:33 <Trip> I still can't believe that the galaxy is collectively that dumb.
21:34 <marasolo> It is
21:34 <becca> What's weirder is the whole telling Allana that Jaina's gonna be her new sister...
21:34 <Trip> I mean, yeah, the whole twelve-month-pregnancy.
21:34 <Trip> BUT STILL
21:34 <RF> This is the GFFA. They're dumb. :p
21:34 <Trip> Although the Luke/Mara exchange in Tempest was amusing
21:34 <becca> it's the aftermath of a war. The Jedi Order takes in a war orphan and a woman who recently lost her son fosters her
21:34 <Trip> Mara: "You know, maybe Allana is Jac-"
21:34 <RF> I'm sure its in the holotabloids, though.
21:34 <Trip> Luke: "HAH HAH Mara you're such an idiot."
21:35 <dgxxx> hehe Jaina is all Karate Kid now
21:35 <RF> Heck, I'm sure some holotabloids have speculated "TK/Luke"
21:35 <RF> :p
21:35 <marasolo> eew
21:35 <Trip> Huh, yeah, speaking of that...
21:35 <RF> :p
21:35 <Trip> I've been rereading the YJK
21:35 <Trip> in sections
21:35 <RF> XD
21:35 <Havac> If the tabloids can come up with "Jacen killed Mara" they can come up with "Allana is Jacen's kid."
21:35 <Trip> (FOR RESEARCH OKAY!)
21:35 <marasolo> I've been meaning to do that too
21:35 <RF> McEwok is right, isn't he?
21:35 <becca> oh god is this going to be like the naked horse girl?
21:35 <Trip> But yeah.
21:35 <Trip> McE is right.
21:35 <RF> Luke/Tenel Ka.
21:35 <RF> So weird.
21:35 <becca> yeah, but if the tabloids come up with it you can bet that they just made it all up...
21:35 <Dunc> eww
21:35 <Trip> Tenel Ka has a thing for Luke, at least.
21:35 <becca> eew
21:35 <RF> KJA makes it easy to... misinterpret things.
21:35 <jawastew> it runs in the family
21:36 <Trip> As a fourteen-year-old.
21:36 <becca> that's...almost worse than naked bare-breasted teenage horsegirls.
21:36 <Havac> No it's not.
21:36 <RF> Read that sentence again.
21:36 <Havac> Naked horsegirl/boy love is worse.
21:36 <RF> No it's not.
21:36 <RF> :p
21:36 <becca> No it's not.
21:36 <Trip> But guys
21:36 <Trip> The YJK is awesome
21:36 <Loyal_Imperial> No, it's not.
21:36 <Trip> it PREVENTS SUICIDE
21:36 <becca> at least they're both age-appropriate. If naked in a kids book.
21:36 *Dunc snickers
21:36 <Trip> Okay, that was kinda low. :/
21:36 *RF smack
21:36 <Havac> Teenage girl crushing on an older guy is . . . something that happens.
21:36 <becca> that was kinda low
21:37 <becca> yeah but LUKE?!
21:37 *Trip is a dick
21:37 <becca> she needs some self respect. And another ARM.
21:37 <Havac> Naked horsegirl love . . . should NOT happen.
21:37 <whiskers> The last atc is annoying with its CONSTANT anti-drug message. It beats you over the head with it.
21:37 <RF> :p
21:37 <Trip> I'm still holding out hope for TorsoTenel
21:37 <RF> Yes...
21:37 <Trip> TorsoTenel/Luke, rather
21:37 <RF> that was annoying.
21:37 <Trip> :D
21:37 <sabarte> heh
21:37 <becca> BUT DRUGS ARE BAD!
21:37 <sabarte> save the whaladons!
21:37 <RF> :p
21:37 <RF> Braze.
21:37 <Havac> Don't pollute Duro!
21:37 <RF> "It's short for brown haze."
21:38 <becca> BRAZE!!
21:38 <becca> I love GODV
21:38 <Havac> ZTHR, I love you.
21:38 <becca> I actually own the first three books...
21:38 <Trip> "Diversity is Fascism!"
21:38 *RF loves how we're talking about everything but Invincible.
21:38 <Trip> Oh wait, we're on GoDV now
21:38 <RF> Yes. GoDV.
21:38 <becca> we spoke about invincible for like an hour before you got here!
21:38 <RF> We need a thread.
21:38 *dgxxx is listening Invincible so he is in topic
21:38 <Trip> Plus /Invincible/ is boring
21:39 <Dunc> What about Corellia?
21:39 <becca> we just...ran out of stuff to say. and it was...interesting how little people wanted to comment on jacne's actual death
21:39 <Dunc> Remember how they started a war?
21:39 <becca> What /about/ Corellia?
21:39 <Loyal_Imperial> Yeah.
21:39 <becca> it's just...dropped
21:39 <Loyal_Imperial> But apparently the author's don't.
21:39 <Havac> See my post in the review thread.
21:39 <Havac> Troy dropped EVERYTHING.
21:39 <becca> I mean, I'm guessing that with a more moderate CoS willing to give Corellia better terms, the negotiations could resume
21:39 <becca> but they couldn't have given us a sentence saying that?!
21:39 <jawastew> no
21:40 <Loyal_Imperial> You know, something just crossed my mind.
21:40 <jawastew> heeeeeeey maybe they'll talk about that in MF
21:40 <Loyal_Imperial> I wonder...might they, some day, do a second book running at the same time as Invincible covering what they didn't show us here?
21:40 <marasolo> A lot more stuff should have been wrapped up in this book, considering it's the last of this series
21:40 <Loyal_Imperial> Just too much stuff was absent to make sense.
21:40 <dgxxx> till now no Niathal :|
21:40 <jawastew> Dunc said it's for later plot points ;p
21:41 <becca> argh. really, this book is awesome on its own, but fails as part of a series.
21:41 <dgxxx> that's TOO clever for Del Rey
21:41 <sabarte> we need a thread
21:41 <sabarte> covering the dropped plot points of LOTF
21:41 <jawastew> you could make a book out of that
21:41 <Loyal_Imperial> It'd be past the word count limit, I'd think...
21:41 <dgxxx> "Diary of the War: A LOTF extra book"
21:42 <Loyal_Imperial> I'm off to read, night all.
21:42 *Uli|BriefStudy is now known as Uli
21:42 *Loyal_Imperial has left #eu
21:42 <becca> night LI!
21:42 <marasolo> Only as part of a hyperspace or whatever subscription of course
21:42 <Uli> They do need some sort of... LotF filler books
21:42 <Uli> or a "LotF Sourcebook"
21:42 <RF> They could use the website.
21:42 <RF> And post extra info.
21:42 <RF> Like *some* authors do.
21:42 <RF> But noooooooo.
21:42 <becca> Uli, that's...damn ironic considering they spend 7 books doing nothing BUT filler
21:42 <marasolo> Like the other half of this book that should have been included?
21:42 <Uli> Yeah
21:42 <becca> and then the last book ends up...needing filler
21:42 <Uli> But they could give us all the meat in a sourcebook
21:42 <Uli> :D
21:43 <Uli> It'd be good too
21:43 <Uli> becuase it'd deal with *facts*
21:43 <Trip> Meh. Much as I hate cop-outs, they need to just zoom the camera back and have Jacen go "damn, Voren, that was a shitty holodrama."
21:43 *Suzuki_Akira has joined #eu
21:43 <Trip> And then he can sue him for libel.
21:43 <Suzuki_Akira> sup
21:43 <Trip> :D
21:43 <Uli> and we'd get none of the bad characterisation
21:43 <becca> No. Because it would be published by WotC and I would be honourbound not to buy it.
21:43 <marasolo> Hi!
21:43 <Uli> Yeah, Trip
21:43 <becca> hi
21:43 <Suzuki_Akira> MANDOOOOOOOOS
21:43 <Uli> and then Luke can be the Darth Caedus Krayt mentions :D
21:43 <dgxxx> Hello Suzuki
21:43 <Trip> Yep.
21:43 <Trip> :D
21:43 <Uli> He did say "anotehr SKYWALKER gone to the dark side" after all
21:43 <becca> oh shit, we haven't even touched ont he mandos yet!
21:43 <Uli> ;)
21:43 <Trip> I did
21:43 <becca> well, okay, but briefly
21:43 <Trip> I pointed out that Beviin was behind the nano-killer
21:43 <Uli> not, "Another of the Skywalker blood who was a solo gone to the dark side"
21:43 <Suzuki_Akira> Mandos are all that is important
21:43 <Suzuki_Akira> about the EU
21:44 <Trip> And that he's trying to double-cross the Sith
21:44 <Suzuki_Akira> trust me, I talked to Karen about this
21:44 <Uli> in fact
21:44 <Uli> that'd have been the best way to end invincible
21:44 <dgxxx> Luke: I knew , I knew , I knew
21:44 <becca> did she enlighten you?
21:44 <Trip> Suzuki - you okay there? :P
21:44 <Uli> All the shit's gone down
21:44 <Uli> Luke's being super creepy and weird
21:44 <Uli> then he sits up in bed, turns to Mara, and darkly says: "He exists."
21:44 <Trip> I gotta admit, I was kinda worried about you when I read the spoilers
21:44 <Uli> mwahahahaha.
21:44 <becca> but at least he's being super creepy and weird while powning mandos
21:44 <Trip> :P
21:45 <becca> I did just LOVE the bit where he verbally kicks the shit out of Fett
21:45 <Suzuki_Akira> speaking of which
21:45 <Suzuki_Akira> Luke sorta double crossed the shit out of them
21:45 <jawastew> that was good
21:45 <Trip> Uli - I forgot about that part in /Betrayal/
21:45 <Trip> :(
21:45 <Trip> Goddammit Aaron.
21:45 <Dunc> It almost made up for that endless first chapter...
21:45 <Suzuki_Akira> dark side y/n?
21:45 <becca> yup, he did, andthat's part of what makes him creepy
21:45 <becca> however
21:45 <Trip> Why couldn't /Betrayal/ have been shitty?
21:45 <Dunc> heh
21:45 <becca> oh, we alreayd voted on that! we got 3 darkside 2 Leto II from DUNE, one chair and two abstains!
21:46 <Suzuki_Akira> one chair?
21:46 <Trip> Luke
21:46 <Trip> is a chair
21:46 <Dunc> I just really hope this puts them off the round-robin series for a while.
21:46 <becca> but re: Mandos - even though luke double corssed 'em, they were trying to double-cross Luke as Luke so aptly pointed out
21:46 <marasolo> Single-author sets are better
21:46 <becca> and I did enjoy seeing SOMEONE call Fett out on his hypocrisy
21:46 <Trip> Dunc, why would it?
21:46 <Dunc> It's a hope, Trip.
21:46 <Trip> But LotF was a /success!/
21:46 <Trip> Look at the /sales!/
21:46 <Dunc> Riiight.
21:46 <Uli> The sales say it was!
21:46 <becca> I dunno, the NJO worked okay, but that wasn't quite the same, that was...even more unplanned if that makes sense?
21:47 <jawastew> single-author sets just means there's going to be super promo of an author's pet
21:47 <Dunc> LOTF was better than NJO
21:47 <jawastew> like chiss
21:47 <Dunc> BUT
21:47 <jawastew> or pilots
21:47 <jawastew> or mandos
21:47 <becca> like you couldn't have your own personal series going on because you only got one book?
21:47 <Uli> I dunno about sales, but I saw black sails and threw myself from a cliff.
21:47 <Trip> What was a #1 NYT Best Seller, hmm?
21:47 <Trip> Oh yeah, that's right.
21:47 <Trip> Revelation, bitches!
21:47 <Trip> Booyah!
21:47 <Suzuki_Akira> I suppose they were trying to double cross him
21:47 <marasolo> But they kill of a major character for each author involved in these
21:47 <Suzuki_Akira> but since when was it acceptable to out treacherize the treacherous?
21:47 <marasolo> off
21:47 <Dunc> You know what, if they just give Traviss standalone Mando books? I WON'T HAVE TO READ THEM. See the beauty in that?
21:47 <Suzuki_Akira> and yes, I'm fully aware that "treacherize" is not a word.
21:47 <becca> Suzuki - it *isn't* and tha'ts part of why luke's so damn creepy
21:48 <becca> but I still enjoyed him pointing out boba's massive hypocrisy
21:48 <Suzuki_Akira> fair enough
21:48 <becca> Dunc: I agree!
21:48 <Uli> Luke: You're a clone anyway
21:48 <Uli> Boba: I know
21:48 <Uli> Luke: DO you?
21:48 <Uli> XD
21:48 <jawastew> I thought that's what the republic commando books were until LoTF
21:48 <Trip> Honestly, I can't even imagine what a hypothetical Traviss-written All-Mando-All-The-Time series would be /about/
21:48 <jawastew> then again, I don't really mind mandos too much
21:48 <marasolo> She would do it
21:48 <Uli> brotherhood
21:48 <Trip> Her mandies mostly sit around a bloviate on stuff that makes her mad
21:48 <Uli> and wretching
21:48 <Uli> retching*
21:48 <Suzuki_Akira> MY JOB
21:48 <marasolo> And kriffing?
21:49 <Suzuki_Akira> NOT YOURS, JAINA
21:49 <Suzuki_Akira> MINE MINE MINE
21:49 <Suzuki_Akira> that was the creepy part for me.
21:49 <Uli> and... like, discussing how no-one can understand them
21:49 <Dunc> This series gave me mando overload. That's all I'm saying.
21:49 <Trip> Suzuki, you remember the prologue to /Tatooine Ghost?/
21:49 <RF> :p
21:49 <becca> Suzuki - you're aware that Luke actually manages - during that speech - to exactly mimic a propehcy of himself as a sith lord?
21:49 <Trip> Because all of us forgot it
21:49 <Trip> Until McEwok pointed it out
21:49 <becca> well, we didn't forget the prophecy
21:49 <Trip> And then I looked it up
21:49 <becca> we forgot it was explicitly about *LUKE*
21:49 <Trip> and holy crap, fellas
21:49 <becca> we thought it was generic
21:49 <Trip> Yeah, that's what I mean
21:49 <Uli> White Eyes is Luuke
21:49 <Trip> we forgot that it was Luke
21:49 <Uli> I SAID IT FIRST
21:49 *a_tree has joined #eu
21:50 *Uli says: that is all.
21:50 <Dunc> Children!
21:50 <Uli> Grandma!
21:50 <Havac> Uli: I . . . came up with that last night.
21:50 *Uli hugs Dunc's knees
21:50 <Uli> damn
21:50 <Havac> On my own too.
21:50 <Uli> Damn damn damn
21:50 *Dunc sighs
21:50 <a_tree> holyshit
21:50 <Havac> I agree.
21:50 <Havac> It would be perfect.
21:50 <Trip> I'm sure E_T said it before either of you
21:50 <Uli> It would be cool.
21:50 <a_tree> what are all the people doing here?
21:50 <Suzuki_Akira> if Luke goes Sith
21:50 <a_tree> o.o
21:50 <Havac> I just meant that "I get it too."
21:50 <Dunc> Invincible chat
21:50 <Havac> I'm not E_T. :|
21:50 <Suzuki_Akira> that will have undone a good decade or so of character development
21:50 <Suzuki_Akira> and would just be a really bad idea
21:50 <becca> Well I realised on my own that the blazing eyes were not a callback, btu I think a lot of peopel saw that. I totally missed the verbal "mine - mine" until someone on the fourms pointed it out
21:51 <becca> and I REALLY forgot that Luke was that guy
21:51 <Trip> Suzuki - I don't think he'll ever go Sith
21:51 <Suzuki_Akira> I'm *hoping* that the idea was to show that Luke was tainted
21:51 <Suzuki_Akira> and they just went overboard
21:51 <becca> SA - yes, it WOULD be a really bad idea at this point because there's no way they can run with it and it's a story they just *did* with Jacen
21:51 <Uli> No, Becca, it'd be great
21:51 <Trip> I've always thought Luke was an ass, though
21:51 <Uli> see, Luke goes bad
21:51 <becca> I have *no* expectation they'll actually go this way
21:51 <Uli> then STARKILLER
21:51 <Uli> shows up
21:51 <Uli> to save the day
21:51 <Uli> :D
21:51 <Uli> it's perfect
21:51 <Trip> So I basically see him just getting more and more overtly, uh... bad
21:51 <Uli> and Juno can be the new COS
21:51 <Suzuki_Akira> with his Star Destroyer throwing powers
21:51 <becca> but isolation it's compelling, and now it's there they can't ignore it so...blergh.
21:51 <Suzuki_Akira> seriously, pulling a Star Destroyer, lolwut?
21:51 <Uli> Maybe Luke is gonna pull a Revan
21:52 <Uli> head off into the unknown regions and not tell anyone anything
21:52 <Uli> to die alone and defeat the true sith within himself ;)
21:52 <becca> I would consider that a special gift to me.
21:52 <Trip> What now?
21:52 <Trip> Luke and a SD, explain plz?
21:52 <Uli> It's in reference to my Starkiller gag, I think
21:52 <Trip> Oh, I see now
21:52 <Uli> how Rhett Starkiller will show up and save the day
21:52 <Trip> Never mind
21:53 <Trip> I hope we do get a LotF sourcebook
21:53 <Uli> A MASSIVE one
21:53 <Suzuki_Akira> do we know his name is Rhett now?
21:53 <Trip> solely so I can see a StealthX
21:53 <Trip> With CLAWS
21:53 <a_tree> wow
21:53 <whiskers> I need a Legacy sourcebook. BAD
21:53 <Uli> Rhett's a joke name, Sukuzi ;)
21:53 <Uli> secRET ;)
21:53 <a_tree> that's weird
21:53 <Suzuki_Akira> ahh
21:53 <Uli> he'll proabbyl be Kane
21:53 <Trip> Azzt - what, Rhett or claws?
21:53 <Uli> Kane Starkiller, son of Kento Starkiller
21:53 <Suzuki_Akira> Big Daddy Kane
21:53 <marasolo> I like Rhett though
21:53 <dgxxx> Luke is goin all wizard I-know-it-all right?
21:54 <Uli> which'll be annoying, since I want Kol's dad to be Kane.
21:54 <dgxxx> he is "gone" again :|
21:54 <a_tree> Trip: Rhett=azzt+rhell?? o.O
21:54 <Uli> Is Ben knighted in this book, then?
21:54 <becca> well if Cade isn't a reference to Caedus, there can be two Kanes.
21:54 <Suzuki_Akira> Why is Luke asleep now while we need him most?!
21:54 <becca> there's another Ganner
21:54 <Uli> If so that's extremely dumb.
21:54 <a_tree> or so
21:54 <becca> Uli - no, but he's referred to as a Knight numerous times and yes it is dumb
21:54 <Uli> Right... just say it's an error
21:54 <Uli> I bet Luceno will.
21:54 <jawastew> off to finish homework, bye!
21:54 <becca> so I assume that when luke told him to go make a ligthsaber he was like...knighting him or whatever
21:54 <Uli> yeah
21:54 <Uli> it means he got to level 7
21:55 *jawastew has left #eu
21:55 <Suzuki_Akira> I always thought Jedi Knight was just a generic name for a person of the Jedi ranks
21:55 <Uli> per the Saga RPG
21:55 <becca> well, we can just assume it's like when the twins got kngithed at the end of YJK AND in DW
21:55 <Uli> that's when a Jedi can build a lightsaber
21:55 <Uli> and when they can take the jedi knight prestige class
21:55 <marasolo> Bye, everyone... thanks for a nice trip back to IRC after 7 years away....
21:55 <Trip> XD
21:55 <becca> SA - but he's referred to as an apprentice thenlater as a knight
21:55 <Uli> :D
21:55 <Suzuki_Akira> like Jedi Knight is the umbrella within which are the levels of Paddywanz, Knightz, and Masturz
21:55 <Uli> come back sooner this time
21:55 <becca> later marasolo!
21:55 *marasolo has quit IRC
21:55 <Trip> THat's why we need a legacy sourcebook
21:55 <Trip> so we can see the Sith Battle Meditation feat
21:55 <Trip> that all Sith get
21:55 <Trip> when they level up
21:55 <Uli> 9_9
21:55 <Trip> XD
21:55 <Uli> that, obviously Lumiya TAUGHT Jacen
21:56 <Uli> even though Traviss forgot that
21:56 <Uli> it's so funny
21:56 <becca> honestly yes, I hope it's just that he's reached that stage of apprenticeship where he's constructed his own lightsaber and is on active assignment and doing misions
21:56 <becca> and later we'll get an official knighting
21:56 <Uli> Allston: Lumiya can teach you this
21:56 <becca> but I think the intention is othewise...
21:56 <Uli> Traviss: OMG I JUST GOT IT
21:56 <Suzuki_Akira> why should Traviss remember something
21:56 <Suzuki_Akira> like that
21:56 <Uli> Denning: The stuff Lumia had taught him...
21:56 <Uli> Still, *I* inerpret it as being
21:56 <Suzuki_Akira> that's just a detail, it doesn't even involve Mandos
21:56 <Uli> Jacen knows the theory
21:56 <Uli> from Lumia
21:56 <Uli> but hadn't been able to do it
21:56 <Uli> then after mara's killing it all clicked
21:56 <Uli> becuase he was properly immersed in the dark side
21:56 *Trip sighs
21:56 <Uli> so it was something he was taught :P
21:57 <Trip> Have I mentioned how much I wish they hadn't used Lumiya?
21:57 <Uli> still, it's stupid that every sith master has it.
21:57 <Uli> you jave
21:57 <sabarte> Heh
21:57 <Uli> have*
21:57 <Uli> should have been Asajj.
21:57 <sabarte> NO
21:57 <sabarte> not Asajj
21:57 <Uli> Yes
21:57 <becca> What did people make of tahiri?
21:57 <sabarte> Asajj needs to live :P
21:57 <Uli> Making Jacen into Dooknu
21:57 <Trip> I want Abel's Lumie back. :(
21:57 <sabarte> and totally never cross paths with anyone important again
21:57 <becca> I...still hate that she went dark cus it makes no sense, but I thought she was better handled in this one than previously
21:57 <sabarte> and/or turn into Ackmena
21:57 <sabarte> either works
21:57 <Uli> I didn't like that she was totally inconsistant, Trip
21:57 *Trip supports Ackmena
21:57 <Suzuki_Akira> Asajj being redeemed = lol
21:57 <Suzuki_Akira> redeeming fucking every darksider = lol
21:58 *Havac has quit IRC (Quit: I bid you all Dark Farewells!.)
21:58 <Uli> exile: I don't hate you luke, why would you think that?
21:58 <becca> I liked that Ben really wanted to save her because he saw his previous situation in her
21:58 <Uli> Exile; why don't you hold my hand?
21:58 <Suzuki_Akira> like they're coupons or something
21:58 <Trip> I didn't like that they blew off all the groundwork Abel set up.
21:58 *sabarte really really likes the idea that Asajj put on a wig and grew up to be Bea Arthur
21:58 <Uli> ...
21:58 <Suzuki_Akira> ...
21:58 <Trip> Hey, it works
21:58 <Kobe> ...
21:58 <sabarte> It really does work :P
21:58 <Trip> YES IT DOES
21:58 *Uli changes topic to 'Sabs... No. :P.'
21:58 *Suzuki_Akira promptly jokes on his own vomit
21:59 <a_tree> :O
21:59 <Suzuki_Akira> that should have been "chokes"
21:59 <Suzuki_Akira> I'm not sure how "ch" in my mind translated to a "j"
21:59 <Suzuki_Akira> but it just might work better this way.
21:59 <Uli> magic
21:59 <becca> who is Bea Arthur?
21:59 *sabarte grins cheerfully
21:59 <Uli> a wizard did it
21:59 <dgxxx> Sith Alchemy
21:59 <Uli> White Eyes is Luuke
21:59 <Suzuki_Akira> Bea Arthur is your mom
21:59 *Uli thinks about it more
21:59 <Suzuki_Akira> WHITE EYES IS NOT LUKE
21:59 <Trip> So, do you think we'll ever hear about Vongarella again?
21:59 <Suzuki_Akira> WHITE EYES IS...
21:59 <Suzuki_Akira> uhm
21:59 <Uli> I said Luuke
21:59 <becca> no, my mom is Morrigan Corde
21:59 <Uli> mine too
21:59 <RF> Vongarella?
21:59 <Suzuki_Akira> Kane Starkiller?
21:59 <RF> No way.
22:00 <Uli> but I have an oedipus complex
22:00 <Trip> Or did LotF completely fuck that.
22:00 <RF> ...
22:00 <a_tree> Uli: :O
22:00 <RF> Thank you Uli.
22:00 <becca> but srsly, who is Bea Arthur?
22:00 <dgxxx> Eduardo StarKiller
22:00 <a_tree> NO, ULI
22:00 <Trip> Becca - an actress
22:00 <Suzuki_Akira> ever seen Golden Girls, Becca?
22:00 <RF> Google her.
22:00 <becca> okay
22:00 <Uli> Morrigan's so hot it would be a crime not to want her
22:00 <Suzuki_Akira> she's the old one
22:00 <Trip>
22:00 <Uli> close biological relationship or not
22:00 <Trip> Uli - Morrigan squicks me out...
22:00 <sabarte>
22:01 <Uli> She can squick me out any time :D
22:01 <Uli> wait
22:01 <Uli> that...
22:01 <becca> that's just because you're a blasphemous heathen and you're lucky mom doesn't maze you.
22:01 <Uli> damn
22:01 <Suzuki_Akira> oh
22:01 <Uli> My maze is just covered in pictures of her anyway
22:01 <RF> "squick"