<Dunc> So, what do we think of Invincible?
<Loyal_Imperial> It was...okay?
<dgxxx> I'm halfway and it is better than the spoilers says
<Dunc> I found it rushed.
<Trip> It sounds like a worthwhile read...
<becca> I HATE that I love this book.
<Trip> Just for shits & grins, I mean
<Loyal_Imperial> The end felt rushed.
*Dunc raps Trip's knuckles
<becca> that pretty much sums up my entire feelings about it
<jawastew> it seemed like denning just wanted to get it over with
<Dunc> There seemed a lot missing.
<becca> yeah, the end needed ten more pages and the Daala thing needed not to be there
<Loyal_Imperial> The earlier parts seemed okay, but the last parts felt really...out there.
<Dunc> Like, Corellia? They got what, two mentions?
<Trip> Poops & grins, then?
<Loyal_Imperial> Especially the bits with the Moffs.
*Uli changes topic to 'INVINCIBLE CHAT: NOW.'
<becca> I was actually okay with it being so compact and brief - just Ben & Tahiri and Jaina & Jacen
<Loyal_Imperial> And Daala.
<jawastew> randomly, at the end
<Dunc> I suspect they're setting something up with Daala
<becca> But yeah, the Daala thing...
<Uli> Something Daala-Dick Dastardly?
<becca> I'm terrified
<Dunc> At least, I HOPE.
<dgxxx> Daala -----> Fel dinasty
<Uli> With Boba as Mutley?
<Dunc> Because, I mean, this is DAALA.
<Trip> So, Dunc... were you as amused about Daala as I thought you'd be?
<Loyal_Imperial> Even offering it to Bwua'tu felt really weird.
<becca> Because the blurb for the next book is all "under the strong hand of admiral daala the galaxy knows a period of unknown peace..."
<jawastew> has the Corellian thing been resolved? ...did I MISS that in the series?
<becca> and I'm like, WTF?!!
<Dunc> Trip: I did laugh, yes.
<Trip> (that was the super-mind-blowing spoiler I was trying to tell you the other day)
<Uli> unknown peace? Does it use those exact words?
<becca> Dunc - you remember when we told you there was something you'd NEVER BELIEVE it was so INSANE ad you didn't believe us?
<becca> That was what we were talking about
<becca> Uli - something like that I'll go find it
<Dunc> Yeah, I was expecting way wackier than Daala, though
<Uli> Like Howard the Daala?
<Dunc> That was just... "Oh, jesus."
<Trip> I dunno. Daala's pretty wack.
<Loyal_Imperial> The nanovirus thing kinda came out of nowhere for me.
<becca> Oh come on, it might not be unbeatable on the *wacky* front but it was way more un*guessable*
<Dunc> They set up a lot of stuff. :P
<becca> come on, you NEVER would have guessed that, not in a billion years
<Loyal_Imperial> I mean, sure, Denning has his little liking for diseases, but that just seemed bizarre.
<becca> i actually didn't mind he nanovirus
<Dunc> Alpha Red: Part Duex.
<becca> it was a bit random but it worked well enough in the story
<jawastew> was denning the one that did alpha red?
<Loyal_Imperial> No, don't think so.
<Trip> No, that was a major NJO plot point
<Trip> Walter Jon Williams introduced it
<Loyal_Imperial> He did do the Killik disease thing, whatever they called it.
<Trip> But it was planned out long ahead of time
<becca> The Fizz
<Loyal_Imperial> That was it, fizz.
<jawastew> too many njo authors, I couldn't remember
<becca> I thought the nanovirus was at least in keeping with the setting and provided some sense-making reasons to keep Mirta alive and to provide that threat to the Hapans
<becca> if we're going to pick on crazy shit, I really wouldn't be picking on that one
<Loyal_Imperial> Well, yes, but the fact that it wasn't ever mentioned before bugged me.
<becca> Eh...I'm sort of beyond that being a defining problem for this series. :/
<Trip> The nanovirus didn't sound terribly implausible, given the descriptions later on
<Trip> It's not a virus, right?
<Trip> It's just itty bitty robot thingies?
<becca> it's like...nanobots that kill you
<dgxxx> so what about Luke's Force illusion? (Invincible)
<becca> Oh OY, Luke. Where do we BEGIN with him?
<Trip> 1) He's evil and needs to die
<jawastew> luke was weird in this one
<becca> Luke was DAMN weird
<Loyal_Imperial> Luke is always weird. He was just weirder than usual this time.
<Dunc> Trip. >:(
<becca> Luke was Paul Muad'dib rapidly heading towards Leto II
<Trip> It had to be said. :P
<jawastew> hahaha becca
<becca> *but not evil* and that's what creeped me out most
<dgxxx> "h doesnt breathe and doesnt blink" why nobody painted a mustache on him :D
<becca> IT'S TRUE AND YOU KNOW IT!
<becca> Or put fruit on his head when he wasn't paying attention. Did anyone else used ot do that to sleeping old people?
<becca> Okay...just me...
<Dunc> Luke just felt... I don't know.
<becca> But seriously - Blazing white eyes and dialogue that goes, "Mine...mine."
<Dunc> I think that's one thing that really suffered from the briefness of the book
<Trip> When does he say that?
<becca> where have we seen THAT before. (Not my catch, but a pertinent one nonetheless)
<becca> Trip - I'll find the quote
<Trip> What's the context?
<Dunc> Well, the one thing I actually wanted to read
<dgxxx> now I'm in the part when Tahiri is torturing Ben
<dgxxx> and Shevu
<jawastew> poor shevu
<Dunc> HE'S FOURTEEN
<Dunc> FOUR. TEEN.
<Trip> haha Shevu
<jawastew> wait, how old is tahiri now?
*Trip was pleased to hear he died
<jawastew> i wanted tahiri to die
<Trip> Tahiri is... 28
<Trip> I think
<Dunc> I don't care how hard Traviss sledghammered the 'growing up' bit.
<dgxxx> I want her to have a name
<Loyal_Imperial> Yep. Think so.
<dgxxx> "Darth hotness"
<Dunc> He's FOURTEEN and that scene was... ugh
<becca> See, I didn't mind that scene. It *was* ugh, but Tahiri didn't actually want to be doing it and I don't think she had any intention of going through with it
<becca> she was trying to find a way not to torture him
<dgxxx> wow Tahiri with Force Lighting?
<Dunc> Becca: Yeah, but it was still skeevy.
<Trip> I forgot that she was 28
<jawastew> lame lame
<Trip> So did the authors, apparently
<becca> to be honest, the notion that leading him on is less sick than physical torture is...odd.
<dgxxx> hey no no don't kill Shevu!
<becca> Yeah it's skeevy but...I think that's the point. It's a horrible situation that neither of them wants to be in
<dgxxx> It's ur fault Trip
<Dunc> Shevu was plot fodder from day one
<jawastew> why can't tahiri be plot fodder?
<Dunc> Oh, Tahiri is too. IMO
<jawastew> i don't get what she adds to the series... o.O
<jawastew> another alema
<becca> Trip - "There /isn't/," Luke pivoted around and glared down on her with eyes that suddenly looked like a pair of sunsblzing up from a dark well. "And it's not your responsibility to worry about those lives. I'ts mine - /mine/, Jedi Solo. Is that clear?"
<jawastew> sans lekku...
<Dunc> Denning loves him some YJK/JJK?
<dgxxx> boners to Ben
*Dunc smacks dgxxx
<Trip> Lukie's gone psycho
<Trip> Dunc - he sure has an odd way of showing it
<becca> Trip - context is that Jaina has just asked if there was a way to avoid having to sacrifice people to keep Luke's visions on the straight and narrow so Caedus didn't get onto his maniuplation of them
<becca> which, you know, is a GOOD THING TO BE ASKING
<becca> Jaina's basically like, "Is there a way we can avoid these peopel dying just so I can retain the element of surprise?"
<Dunc> I dunno. I didn't think SbS was all that, either.
<McEwok> So, Luke's making crazy psycho calls on the basis of Force visions?
<Loyal_Imperial> Seems that way.
<becca> Yes, McEwok.
<McEwok> And Luke gets all Sith eyes?
<jawastew> they're just dark
<McEwok> Oh, bloody FUCKING hell.
<Loyal_Imperial> Err, glowing, sounds like.
<Loyal_Imperial> Not Sith eyes.
<becca> Well, his eyes are described as dark, like...very dark most of the time
<dgxxx> tahiri is going bonkers
<McEwok> Tatooine GHOST
<becca> then in *this* moment, they glow bright white
<becca> like leia's tatooine ghost eyes YES
<Dunc> Luke has to have visions to misdirect Jacen.
<jawastew> dark glowy spectruum
<becca> he even says "Mine - mine!"
<Dunc> It is rather Duneish
<McEwok> He does, becca?
<Trip> What really sucks is you know nothing will ever come of it
<becca> McEwok - read the dialogue I typed
<becca> "mine - /mine/ Jedi solo, do you understand?"
<becca> it *can't* be a coincidence
<McEwok> No, no way.
<Trip> I mean, I could almost get excited about Luke going... weird
<Loyal_Imperial> Wait, what was the Tatooine Ghost vision?
<McEwok> That's... actually making this make more sense.
<Trip> Except it'll be dropped
<Loyal_Imperial> Refresh my memory?
<Trip> Since they'll never let him go "bad"
<becca> Trip that is EXACTLY HOW I FEEL
<McEwok> It's the _Tempest_ vision, part 1.
<becca> because they cannot possibly go anywhere with this.
<Trip> McE - also the TG vision
<becca> Leia sees a white-eyed sith lord reaching out and saying, "mine, mine," referring to her children
<McEwok> Trip, yeah, that's what I meant:...
<Trip> I've been anti-Luke for forever... I should feel vindicated/excited/whatever
<McEwok> It's explicitly Luke in TG.
<Trip> Instead I'm just "meh."
<Dunc> That was in Tempest, too?
<McEwok> Yeah. When Jacen was looking at the clouds.
<Loyal_Imperial> Uh, wow...
<becca> But for the first time, I *BELIEVE* Luke could go evil. Which makes me wish that 1) they hadn't done that already in DE an 2) they hadn't just DONE their big irredeemable evil thang
<Loyal_Imperial> Is that...a reference, I see?
<McEwok> What, LI?
<becca> Hang on - is it explicity luke in TG?
<McEwok> Yes, becca.
<Loyal_Imperial> LotF referencing past works done well.
<becca> I thought it was supposed to be the Emperor...
<Loyal_Imperial> I am shocked.
<McEwok> Seriously, you people FORGOT this.
<jawastew> because TG was forgettable
<becca> I didn't forget it! I just bought it up!
<Dunc> I haven't read TG in ages
<McEwok> No, it's Vader, Palpatine, Luke.
<becca> I figured you KNEW this!
<Trip> Here, want me to post the quote?
<Loyal_Imperial> TG is easy to forget.
<Trip> From TG?
<McEwok> It's initially foreshadowing for DE.
<becca> yes, please do
<McEwok> Though it was a different set of Sith in TUF.
<Loyal_Imperial> Seems that's been changed again.
<Trip> " As Chewbacca worked to raise the proper filters, the static faded from a roar to a crackle, then softened to a hiss, which rose and fell in a sharp rhythm. Puzzled by the odd snickering sound, Leia glanced over at the master comm console and found the reception indicator still scanning for signals. She leaned forward against her crash webbing. "
<McEwok> Of course, who's White Eyes now? Farmboy? ;)
<Trip> "Han, do you hear..."
<Trip> No sound came from her mouth. The snicker became a deep chuckle, and a nebula of black gas began to gather in front of the Falcon. Han showed no reaction to it. Neither did Chewbacca, even when it coalesced into the cowl of a Jedi cloak.
<Trip> "Han! Don't you see..."
<Trip> Again, her voice made no sound. Glaring out from beneath the cowl, the twin suns looked more than ever like eyes-heartless eyes, full of malice and power lust. Where the cloud was thin, crooked streaks of purple radiance created the impression of a twisted mouth and wrinkled face.
<Trip> The mouth rose at the corners. "Mine."
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<Trip> The voice was cruel and distinct and rife with dark side power. Leia gasped-silently-and tried to raise an arm that had suddenly grown as heavy as the Falcon.
<Trip> The smile became a sneer. "Mine."
<Trip> Still, neither Han nor Chewbacca seemed to notice what was happening. Leia would have screamed, had her mouth been willing to obey.
<Trip> The nebula began to thicken, and the purple wrinkles faded behind its inky veil. The twin suns dimmed to darkness, and the black cloud assumed the shape of a familiar mask-a mask of harsh angles and obsidian sheen, framed by the long, flaring neck apron of an equally black helmet. Vader's helmet.
<Trip> A chill wave of nausea washed over Leia. The curved eye lenses grew transparent, but instead of the blazing brightness of Tatooine's twin suns-or the angry red-rimmed gaze of Darth Vader-she found herself looking into her brother's soft blue eyes. "Luke! What are you..."
<Trip> Holy shit...
<Trip> It /was/ Luke!
<Trip> I totally forgot this!
<Loyal_Imperial> Denning did TG, didn't he?
<becca> I don't think Luke will go evil, but it DOES make me like the notion that the reason Jacen killed Luke in all his future visions was because Luke DID go evil. So Jacen saved the galaxy from Evil Luke, and the white eyes and words are a...holdover in between realities?
<Loyal_Imperial> Then it *is* him!
<becca> HOLY SHIT
<becca> you're right
<Trip> Her question remained as silent as the others she had asked. Luke's eyes grew hollow and hard and haunted, and the helmet moved slowly from side to side. Blue flickers of electricity snaked across the speech circuits behind the respiratory screen, but his words were rendered nearly inaudible by static crackling. Leia made out something about not following and staying out of darkness; then...
<Trip> ...Luke fell silent again. She tried to tell him that his equipment was malfunctioning, that his voice had been obscured, but before she could find a way to make herself heard, the helmet stopped moving.
<Trip> Luke locked gazes and held her transfixed for what might have been seconds... or minutes... his eyes now the lifeless blue of ice. Leia grew cold, and frightened, and the mask dissolved back into the black nothingness of space, leaving her to stare out once again into the mind-stabbing brilliance of the Tatoo system's twin suns.
<Loyal_Imperial> That's no accidental reference, that was definitely intentional.
<jawastew> maybe luke saved himself from that vision
<jawastew> by sending Jaina
<jawastew> instead of doing the deed himself
<Trip> It's the prologue to TG, even
<jawastew> since he saw himself going that direction if he went
<McEwok> Moral hypocrite.
<becca> that's probably the boring explanation
<Trip> So... Jacen went "dark" to keep Luke from going "dark..."
<becca> I think the more interesting one is that this is his Sith Self and he was gettting closer to it during the novel
<becca> and yeah
<Trip> And, think about it...
<becca> I think that Jacen stopped that reality by going dark himself
<Trip> In SW, /you cannot defeat a vision of the future/
<Trip> You always make it come true but trying to stop it
<jawastew> i'm not giving jacen enough credit for that
<becca> Except that Jacen has
<Trip> Or has he?
<becca> Well...not really since the vision did come true after a fact
<sabarte> He's not killing Luke now, f'shure
<Dunc> Always? :P
<becca> I don't believe that Luke will go bad, but we did get him saying those words and such
<Trip> Hey, sabs... you guys want Annie to be resurrected
<Loyal_Imperial> sabarte: Unless he comes back from the dead as a Force Ghost. Marka Ragnos and such.
<Trip> I'm gonna start a "resurrect Jacen!" club
<jawastew> he's always in the brink of going bad
<becca> the problem is, as trip identified, they've FINALLY managed to makeme believe this stuff, but there's *nowhere it can go*
<sabarte> I don't want him to be resurrected
<Loyal_Imperial> Why not, becca?
<Dunc> Zombie Star Wars
<Trip> Ooh... Maybe Jacen didn't see himself in the vision
<sabarte> I think the Sal-Solo thing was an obvious and natural opportuinity for him to be cloned and a different character to be created
<sabarte> "boba", as it were :P
<Dunc> Aaron would love it. :D
<Trip> Maybe it was Anakin
<becca> Because there's no way they can possibly do EvilLuke without hitting the following problems:
<sabarte> and I'm pissed it didn't happen :P
<Trip> Killing Luke
<Trip> Maybe legacy!Luke is Anakin?
<becca> 1) he'd have to be redeemed which would cheapen the whole thing from the outset: no real sense of danger
<Loyal_Imperial> Not really.
<Dunc> And again: DE
<Loyal_Imperial> But continue.
<becca> no - dude, there is *no way* they'd let him be evil forever
<Trip> LI - do you /really/ think LFL would let Luke go dark and die?
<becca> 2) they already did this in DE so it would cheapen the whole thing if it wasn't "for real"
<Trip> Or just go dark?
<Loyal_Imperial> All he has to do is isolate himself on Tatooine and go hermit style to avoid contaminating the galaxy with his dark power.
<Loyal_Imperial> Gets him out of the picture, and they never have to write his death.
<becca> 3) they just *did* the "main character goes evil and gets killed" epic plot. they can't immediately repeat that.
<sabarte> Plus he's a force ghost in Legacy
<sabarte> and fairly farmboy-like still
<McEwok> Or a Force-projection?
<jawastew> GL did it... LoTF did it...
<Dunc> We need a break. :P
<becca> I mean, really, 9-book series about Jacen goin gevil and dying, let's follow it up with a 9-book series abotu LUKE doing the SAME THING!
<Loyal_Imperial> sabarte: Two words, Anakin Skywalker.
<becca> But if they ignore the characterisation in Invincible, then...that's a crying shame
<becca> and to be hoenst, if they just show Luke "having worked through it," I'm also...gonna be disappointed.
<Dunc> Maybe we'll finally get an intropective-Luke book
<Trip> Is that even Luke?
<becca> it's...a painted-in corner, even though it's *stellar* within the novel itself.
<Trip> In Legacy?
<Trip> They never say his name, do they?
<Dunc> IF (please) they quit it with the big series and just give us standalones
<Dunc> MF the first...
<becca> Well, MF at least mentions Luke trying to work out why Jacen went bad
<becca> we *might* get some sort of revelation there
<Dunc> Then a Luke and Ben book...
<becca> Jaina book is needed
<Dunc> Then something else (probably Fett)
<dgxxx> they have to explore more the new Jaina
<Dunc> Jag and Jaina... Zekk...
<jawastew> Invincible was like a jaina book
<becca> Yeah, but in terms of post-INvincible standalones
<becca> plus the way it was written, she's *assumed* the mantle of the sword by killing jacen, not fulfilled that prophecy
<Uli> Regarding Legacy Luke
<Uli> Perhaps... if we assume he *did* go dark
<Uli> When Cade says;
<Uli> "And that's not a good place for a Skywalker to be *is it*?" takes on a different light?
<becca> But I just...I can't compute DR actually having Luke go dark. My brain refuses.
<Uli> Also luke's assertion that: "I know all about the dark side. More than you."
<Loyal_Imperial> I can.
<becca> At *this* point, despite how awesome it is in the novel itself, I don't think darkluke is a great idea for the franchise
<Loyal_Imperial> It makes sense, if one takes it as a way for them to avoid killing him off.
<McEwok> They've stretched it for too long, though.
<becca> mainly because LOTF showed they have no capacity to write subtle and note-entirely-evil darkness
<McEwok> Can we have a poll: who thinks Luke is *already* Dark?
<Trip> Ooh ooh me!
<Uli> I don't know
<becca> It's like I said - he's Leto II from DUNE.
<Kobe> Luke is a chair
<becca> so that's five yes and two abstains and one chair...
<Uli> The Siege Perilous?
<Trip> Well, I don't necessarily mean "dark"
<McEwok> So... three dark, two abstain, two Leto II, and one chair.
<Trip> I think it's a silly descriptor anyway
<Dunc> The YJK quotes
<Trip> I do think he's, you know
<dgxxx> hey what about that Invincible book?
<McEwok> "Eeeeevil"? :P
<becca> And if they want to write him that way, then awesome, but that type of character doesn't really exist in SW
<Loyal_Imperial> Five dark, McEwok.
<becca> Okay - Jaina!
<Dunc> JACEN'S BAD JOKES
<Loyal_Imperial> She's on the cover.
<Dunc> They just made me want him to die even more
<Loyal_Imperial> She uses her lightsaber like a broom.
<becca> Can I point out that she applied the same pick-and-choose approach to Luke's Jedi Advice as she does to the Mando Advice and for EXACTLY THE SAME REASONS?
<Loyal_Imperial> You can.
<becca> And also yes, she uses her lightsaber as a broom. It was very fantasia.
<jawastew> the jokes were always bad
*becca points this out
<jawastew> 14... 30whatever
<Dunc> I know. But still. Jacen was never cool.
<Loyal_Imperial> A pity, really.
<becca> He was cool in Traitor!
<Dunc> Why mourn? At least they got some use out of him
<dgxxx> he won the Vong war
<Trip> ( @ dunc )
<jawastew> he was cool in traitor
<jawastew> and then it's all downhill from there
<becca> but was he *cool* while doing it? Was he wearing Sunglasses and a Leather Jacket?
<Uli> Jacen and Jaina went up the hill?
<Loyal_Imperial> His term as Sith Lord was his big chance, but it never really went anywhere.
<Loyal_Imperial> He was always too human.
<becca> I loved the scene where he killed Isolder
*Uli blames the authors describing Jacen dossing about reading magazines
<jawastew> poor isolder
<jawastew> people died left and right
<Loyal_Imperial> Yes, that did come to mind when writing that, Uli.
<becca> that scene was...the way he always should have been portrayed
*Trip blames the authors making Jacen the most insecure and needy Sith Lord ever
<Uli> Didn't sacrifice have in him the bath, too?
<Trip> And by authors I mean Traviss
<becca> *he doesn't want to kill him*
<Loyal_Imperial> Think so, Uli.
<Uli> Or was that some crazy fanfic I read
<becca> in the bath EATING TAKE AWAY and drawing pictures in the STEAM
<Uli> I remember him playing with tassels, in a bath
<Loyal_Imperial> Darth Mundane.
<Trip> Are you guys serious.
<Uli> and I was like: "wait, what?"
<McEwok> Sounds like _Bloodlines_.
<Dunc> The tassels just vanished, didn't they?
<Loyal_Imperial> Yes, Trip.
<becca> No, I think it was Sacrifice
<Loyal_Imperial> We are.
<Uli> I mean, Perry had Vader naked
<dgxxx> the tassels were just.. er..
<Dunc> Ben was looking at mags in Bloodlines
<becca> I KNOW WHAT YOU SAW! /RD
<Trip> I thought Leia and Mara discussing low-fat food was bad enough.
<Dunc> wait, what?
<McEwok> The tassels were... completely different in the first two novels, and dropped due to incoherence.
<Loyal_Imperial> Well, that I have no problem with, but the Evil Overlord should not be discussing magazines or taking baths where the reader can see him.
<Uli> the hassle with tassels
<Trip> In /Sacrifice,/ Dunc
<Dunc> I don't mind the magazine thing
<becca> Well, when planning to murder one's sister-in-law's son, calorie contents is DEATHLY important
<Dunc> The bath was a bit... :\
<McEwok> Okay... I gotta go...
<Loyal_Imperial> Night, McEwok.
<becca> Bye McEwok!
<Uli> night McE
<Dunc> Calorie counts is a bit much
<becca> Remember how insane Luke is now!
<becca> Dunc - I do't think they mentioned calories, just "low fat" or something
<Trip> Bye, McE
<McEwok> Who knows?
<McEwok> Who cares?
*McEwok has quit IRC
<becca> But really, guys, am I the only one who liked that Isolder scene? I liked how Jacen was portrayed there.
<Dunc> I like the Isolder scene
<Trip> "Let's find a stupidly expensive restaurant and forget the fat content."
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<becca> It was really *interesting* for once. Jacen was...more like in Betrayal. He really didn't want to kill Isolder, and tried really hard not to
<Trip> That's what I was thinking of
<becca> you're late for the chat!
<Loyal_Imperial> Evening, Havac.
<Dunc> Poor guy got more dignity going out than he ever did in COPL
<Trip> Also, Jacen orders low-fat take-out for his bathtub scene
<becca> True, he was made into a good character there
<Dunc> Trip: Oh, that's not so bad
<becca> Trip, yes he does
<Dunc> The resturant thing. I remember the takeout
<Loyal_Imperial> Which page was this again, just out of curiosity?
<Trip> Yeah, it's not as bad as I was lead to believe
<Loyal_Imperial> Isolder, that is.
<Uli> I think that sort of stuff is pretty bad
<Trip> Stumble told me low-fat is talked about like fifteen times
<Uli> it's fanfic material, not novel material. IMO.
<Trip> She tends to exaggerate
<Dunc> Maybe so.
<Uli> the novels should focus on the epic
<Dunc> It's not like Naboo or anything
<Uli> the mythic
<Uli> not the mundane
<Dunc> Speaking of... EXPOSITION
<Uli> the mundane can be left to the fan's imaginations
<Trip> I don't mind the mundane
<Trip> except when it's lame
<Uli> going to the shitter is the same for everyone
<Havac> I like the mundane.
<sabarte> mythic, not mundane
<Dunc> How often do we have to hear about Han and Leia and how they're Jaina's parents and they're fab?
<Havac> You just have to have the mythic too.
<Uli> The mundane just... doesn't work.
<becca> many times.
<Dunc> This is the last book of a nine-book series. WE KNOW.
<becca> but honestly, i didn't mind it too much on account of i missed leia and han.
<Uli> It'd be like... like seeing Luke going to throw up after his fight wiht Vader
<Uli> it's unnecessary
<becca> plus I thougth it was hilarious that Jaina got outflirted by her sixty year old MOM
<Trip> Probably because Han & Leia (mostly Leia) are dreadful parents?
<Uli> and it's obvious padding in novels
<Dunc> I really hate exposition, period. I was able to overlook it in, say, Betrayal
<Havac> Becca: that was more Denning oddness.
<becca> I KNOW
<Trip> So Denning had to convince us that they're not?
<Dunc> But by now? WE KNOW.
<becca> But it at least made me arch an eyebrow and laugh
<jawastew> for the people that picked up EU at LoTF?
<Dunc> Less telling, more showing
<Havac> Denning does that kind of stuff a lot.
<becca> Hav - you missed it earlier, but you know how luke has blazing white eyes and says "mine - mine"?
<Dunc> Becca: He can read the log
<becca> and how there was talk about the TG vision?
<Dunc> We've moved on.
<Trip> Yeah, the TG vision is Luke, explicitly
<Havac> Yeah, I saw that.
<Havac> It was . . . a cool twist.
<becca> ah - well read the log then, but basically yeah - Luke. :/
<becca> yeah, cool enough to mention before returning to the surreality of sixty year old hooker leia...
<Havac> I didn't mind Luke, really.
<Havac> He just had this awesome sort of wizard war thing going on against Jacen. Like, constant mental warfare.
<becca> I LOVED Luke. I just...I hate that none of this'll be picked up on in later books, I don't think.
<becca> eh, he was weird.
<Trip> Also, evil.
<becca> He kept giving Jaina Mando advice.
<Havac> You always say that, Trip.
<dgxxx> ok back Crusade is over
<Uli> Luke is going Gandalf when Gandalf was going weird?
<Uli> Wasn't there a bit where Gandalf went really weird?
<becca> when did Gandalf go weird?
<Uli> I only ever read LotR once
<becca> no, he just fought a balrog and died
<dgxxx> when he was Gandalf the white
<becca> then came back. he never went weird.
<Uli> Didn't he... like become really withdrawn and moody for a while after looking into the orb thing
<Havac> He doesn't really go that weird.
<Uli> and scary
<Havac> The Palantir? No.
<Uli> I remember her, because the film freaked me the shit out, but that's not what I was thinking of.
<dgxxx> oh The Clone Wars made the local news :D
<Dunc> "All shall love me and despair!"
<Trip> Gandalf went evil, yeah
<becca> So what do we all make of Jaina, then, and her "drawing on love," schtick?
<Uli> Was it enar the beginning?
<Havac> It didn't bother me.
<Trip> No, it's in the second book
<Trip> after he dies
<becca> oh, me either
<Havac> Love is the candle that . . . . whatever whatever.
<Trip> then he comes back and is evil and stuff
<becca> i certainly don't think she went dark or anything so silly
<Trip> But nobody notices
<Trip> except me
<becca> the text was fairly clear in its intentions to be portraying her as doing the "right" thing
<Trip> I noticed
<becca> but I think it's interesting that she goes against Luke's explicit instructions?
<Trip> What were Luke's instructions?
<Uli> you know, re; Jaina and love
<Uli> anyone else got the He-Man She-Ra movie song in their head now?
<becca> he goes on and on about not letting herself be ruled by emotions of either extreme
<becca> goes on this whole jag about attachments and how her worrying for her parents is bad she has to trust them to tdo their job
<becca> and how if she does let herself get rules by love or hate she might end up evil
<becca> to be honest, Jaina is not Luke and Jacen is not Lumiya.
*sabarte just doesn't like Denning's take on the EU.
<becca> I'm not sure that Luke was aware of that though...
<sabarte> It's not...heroic monomyth enough :P
<Uli> http://youtube.com/watch?v=p8ZcmMK64Ok She-Ra as Jaina? :P
<Havac> I think that Luke was saying whatever he felt he needed to say to get the right result.
<becca> sabs - that's why we have legacy! :p
<Uli> He-Man as ... Jacen?
<becca> I'm not sure how I feel about that though?
<Trip> Legacy. Feh.
<dgxxx> dead He-Man
<sabarte> It's just...
<Trip> How dare they tie the hands of the novels.
<Havac> So he doesn't want her to get completely overwhelmed by love, so he warns her strongly enough to make just enough of a point?
<sabarte> I'd almost like it better if Denning was forced to write in the PT era :P
<becca> I dunno, that scene came off a little creepy to me, but I think the bigger reason I'm picking up on it
<becca> is that Jaina considers and discards his advice on enteiring the battlefield, then follows it later
<becca> she makes judgement calls that *exactly* mirror her thought processes when deciding whether or not to pay attention to Mando advice on being detached
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<becca> And...if Luke is telling her what he wants in order to get the result he wants, regardless of what's most *healthy* for her that's...an interesting point to note?
<becca> I dunno. The whole thing is just a bit weird in my head.
<jawastew> i got that whole.. everyone is a pawn of luke's grand scheme feeling
<becca> So, votes: BattleSun Odyssey - shout out to Battlestar Galactica?
<becca> Jawa - So did I, absolutely. I'mjust...not sure how to feel about that?
<jawastew> it made me uncomfortable, 1 because i really like luke! and 2 that's.. creepy...
<becca> the shout out or the pawns thing?
<Trip> what now?
<Hav> I prefer it when people can at least be subtle about their allusions.
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<Trip> BattleSun Odyssey?
<becca> Fair dos. I kinda liked it cus it was a one-time amusing thing
<Dunc> Yeah, if it becomes a running joke...
<becca> Trip: Leia snarks when someone says to distract Caedus, "what are we supposed to do, beam down the latest episode of BattleSun Odyssey," or something
<Dunc> But just for a one-off, it was cute.
<Loyal_Imperial> Uh, yeah...
<Loyal_Imperial> Too obvious.
<Trip> That's just dumb
*Havac has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds.)
<Trip> But then, I liked /The Voyages of the VSD Protector/... :P
*Hav is now known as Havac
<dgxxx> the hell? cantina t heme?
<becca> You know, I kind of wish that Jaina had actually gotten to use her shatterpoint ability after she learned it...
<jawastew> why did she learn it?
<Uli> Kara "Starkiller" Thrace?
<Trip> Oh yeah, I wanted to ask about that...
<Havac> That was odd.
<dgxxx> ohh Ben
<Havac> I only noticed after I was finished that . . . she never used it.
<Trip> Did Denning screw up shatterpoints as much as I've heard?
<becca> Cus Luke offered and you don't turn that kind of thing down?
<jawastew> chapter filler!
<Havac> It would have been awesome if she could see Jacen's shatterpoint, but . . . it was completely irrelevant.
<jawastew> totally useless!
<jawastew> yes it was
<becca> Trip, nto really, he just only spoke about the physical application
<becca> It could have been a great endgame to the duel with Jacen
<becca> yeah, exactly
<Dunc> Chapter filler for a book that otherwise... had no filler
<becca> like at the end, when she makes amove that she knows will kill him but that he can't counter either
<Trip> I don't recall Mace ever really using at in a literal sense...
<becca> ...couldn't that have been a shatterpoint type moment?
<Havac> Yeah. Denning also did seem to misunderstand it.
<jawastew> jacen's death was so anti climatic
<Havac> To be about physical shatterpoints rather than the shatterpoints of events.
<dgxxx> huh? Why is Ben ordering drinks like James Bond?
<jawastew> to get a hot date
<Loyal_Imperial> Skywalker. Ben Skywalker?
<becca> no, neither do I, but I also don't find that I have a problem with it being literal too
<Havac> God, that was creepy.
<Loyal_Imperial> Too many references.
<Havac> Denning and his twentysomething women hitting on 14-year-old boys.
<Havac> That was just pervy.
<Trip> Denning's really random...
<becca> in my head I'm just pretending that Ben looks about 17... :/
<becca> like, I don't mind Tahiri so much because that whole situation was screwed up and she didn't actually *mean* it
<Havac> Yeah . . . .
<becca> I also tend to assume that the Zel twins are largely just being playful and teasing him to wind him up for a laugh
<jawastew> i agree...
<Dunc> The twins would have been less creepy if it hadn't been for the Tahiri scene
<Trip> I don't get why they went with the condensed timeline, if they wanted to do stuff like this...
<Trip> Not that it matters to me
<Havac> Well, yeah, the twins are just those people who flirt with everyone as a shtick.
<Havac> But it's still creepy.
<Havac> Especially with Time and Earthknight around.
<Dunc> They were clearly harmless (to Ben) but after... ugh.
<becca> I honestly find Luke acting like his son IS an adult to be creepier.
<jawastew> the shower scene was the creepiest for me
<Dunc> Well, Luke isn't hitting on him.
<dgxxx> Red hair twins with Ben!
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<jawastew> sonisteam or whatever
<sabarte> as I've said many times
<Dunc> That's an important factor.
<sabarte> complete lack of forward planning in the EU
<Trip> Luke considers Ben an adult?
<Dunc> Hi, Movus
<becca> Well he repeatedly references him as a Jedi Knight
<jawastew> Ben says something to that effect
<jawastew> "Thanks for not treating me like a kid"
<jawastew> blah blah blah
<jawastew> at the end
<becca> he sends him into a situation where he KNOWS his son will get captured by the GAG because his son made him promise not to give him special treatment
<Trip> It fits, anyway
<becca> the kid is 14. I don't care what he's done, he's a KID.
<Trip> Luke can't really handle responsibility
<Trip> of that sort
<Dunc> Is that any different than Anakin Solo?
<becca> He needs a PARENT.
<dgxxx> why is everyone hittin on Ben? _:P
<Trip> He's always been like that
<Dunc> I mean, really?
<becca> Yes, because Anakin was 16 and everyone kept mentioning that he oughtn't be doing what he's doing.
<Havac> I don't see a problem.
<jawastew> only difference dunc, it's his son
<Loyal_Imperial> Me neither.
<becca> and was 17 by the time he led a mission and even then it was...dubious and that was *discussed*
<Havac> Obi-Wan was going on missions younger.
<Movus> In the YJK books, they were all doing as much as Ben is doing at the same age......
<Trip> With Anakin, it was at least acknowledged
<becca> It's less that he's going on missions in dangerous environments
<Havac> Anakin was 14 when he was slicing through Vong on Ithor.
<jawastew> they did crazy things in the Jedi Academy trilogy
<becca> I have no problem iwth that
<jawastew> at like.. 2
<becca> he was 15, but that's not my problem.
<Trip> Hav - sixteen
<Trip> Fifteen, yeah
<becca> I KNOW that Ben will be having adventures, that's all fine
<becca> it's that he gets knighted and effectively, apparently, made independent that bothers me
*Movus is now known as marasolo
<Uli> Ben spoke as a man before council before his fifteenth year day - he's Conan.
<Trip> Like I said, though... it does fit Luke's character
<sabarte> well, you know
*Uli pre-empts Hav
<Uli> NOT CANON CONAN
<Trip> D'you remember when he knighted all the YJK in Destiny's Way?
<sabarte> they wiped out the YJK generation as protaganists to a man
<marasolo> Conan was kind of funny though
<Trip> Just... because?
<becca> with the solo kids there was discussion about how they were too young. And Anakin was running off without permission or getting into situations he shoudln't be in
<Trip> To get them out of his hair, I guess?
<becca> then at 17 he leads a mission everyone's...dubious about
<Trip> Even all of them were confused as hell
<becca> so yeah, it's the fact that he's been Knighted and is off on his own, rather than as a guy under training that bugs me
<Havac> I would have strongly preferred that he spend more time as an apprentice.
<Trip> *any time
<becca> that kid's been through hell, he needs a parent figure.
<sabarte> They wouldn't have had to do ridiculous "early adulthood" stuff if they'd sanely spaced generations.
<becca> and *ntohing* in that novel would have needed changing if Ben were referred to as Apprentice Skywalker not Jedi Skywalker. He still could have been sent on the missions he's sent on.
*becca will drop her pet peeve now
<jawastew> becca, I think that's what REALLY bothers me about luke using people as pawns... even his kid isn't safe from it
<becca> yeah, that too
<Trip> I think what really bothers me is that at this point they're all but yelling LUKE IS A BAD MAN
<Trip> And people still think he's a perfect hero
<Trip> (In Lit I mean)
<becca> and, i have no idea if that's what they're trying to yell.
<marasolo> Invincible could have used more of what was going on inside Luke's head I think
<becca> i actually don't think that he's a bad man. I think that he's...confusing.
<jawastew> i still like luke..
<becca> like, I don't believe he's trying to do anything inherently evil. He's *saving* people.
<sabarte> I think they don't know how to write him.
<becca> But he's also creeping me out something chronic.
<Trip> I don't think he's evil. I never really have.
<jawastew> i think we've needed luke introspection for quite a few books now
<Trip> I think he's a hypocrite. I think he lacks almost any sort of empathy whatsoever.
<marasolo> He was totally on the verge of being all evil this time around
<Trip> I think he's very self-centered.
<becca> I think the problem is that Luke's character changed mightily between ESB and ROTJ, and ROTJ Luke isn't the farmboy we all want to read about
<jawastew> err, yeah but he's got more coherence as a character in the trilogy than in the EU
<sabarte> No, I want to read about ROTJ Luke grown up.
<Trip> Eh, Luke was kind of a dick in ESB, even
<sabarte> I'm just not sure the EU has nailed him.
<marasolo> This was very ROTJ luke, wasn't it? Like you don't know what or why he does stuff
<Trip> remember when he went AWOL?
<Trip> Without telling anyone?
<Uli> damn, missed the L
<becca> Okay, sabs - fair point. I guess what I mean is that it's harder to write ROTJ Luke? He's more complicated? *he's* the one they're getting wrong?
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*ChanServ sets mode: +o RF
<becca> Trip in BFC?
<becca> I'm readin ghtat now
<marasolo> I always like the beginning of ROTJ when he gives the droids over to Jabba, very wtf for them
<Trip> No, in ESB
<becca> Oh, right
<Trip> When he goes to Dagobah
<Trip> He's a squadron commander.
<Loyal_Imperial> Evening, RF.
<RF> ESB is on right now.
<Trip> And he /sneaks off without telling anyone./
<becca> Hey RF! Welcome to the Invincible Chat!
<sabarte> I think I, Jedi did a good job
<becca> we shoudl probably get back on topic...
<Trip> He even lies to Wedge.
<RF> Yeah, he does.
<RF> That rat.
<Trip> "Oh yeah, Wedge, sure, I'll meet you at the rendezvous."
<dgxxx> Ben is with the Hapan girls
<Trip> This is not something a responsible CO does.
<jawastew> they've been grappling how to make luke into some jedi grand master
<jawastew> the transition period has been long and unsuccessful
*Trip will shut up about Luke now.
<sabarte> Well, actually
<sabarte> they've been trying to kill him
<sabarte> and never getting permission
<becca> you'd think they'd have given up by now
<sabarte> so there's this endless cycle of "We can't kill Luke so let's kill X instead"
<Trip> Maybe that's why the make him meaner and meaner.
<Trip> More and more unlikeable.
<jawastew> he's supposed to rebuild the jedi order and nothin's working in that direction
<Trip> There's a shadow-war between the licensees and the bigwigs.
<becca> So I have to admit, I was more affected by Jaina holding Jacen's corpse than I thought I would...
<jawastew> jedis dying left and right, goign to the dark side
<Trip> Eventually, one of them will break!
<RF> Conspiracy theory?
<becca> yeah, plus he keeps rebuilding it more and more liek the OJO which...failed.
<becca> it's a sort of weird metatextual issue - as we find out more about the OJO, we make Luke's JO more like it!
<jawastew> they do that with everything though
<Trip> Well, to be fair, his NJO was pretty fucked up right at the beginning
<RF> I think that's because the authors see the PT, and they're like "woah" and then they put stuff into the NJO.
<marasolo> Which I hate!
<dgxxx> Double X?
<jawastew> as the PT stuff comes into light, it's wormed into the EU
<jawastew> as if it's always been there
<sabarte> I don't know
<RF> That gets annoying.
<sabarte> The YJK generation is gone
<becca> It doesn't make sense either
<jawastew> and it's irritating
<RF> The PT doesn't have to be everywhere.
<sabarte> Ben doesn't -have- a generation
<becca> I miss mulitcoloured lightsabers!
<dgxxx> who's double x?
<sabarte> The PT needs to stay in the PT
<jawastew> it does
<becca> dgx - the torture droid
<Trip> Again, i think it makes some sense
<jawastew> suddenly naboo is everywhere
<jawastew> and shatterpoint, REALLY?
<jawastew> come on
<becca> yeah, because they find out more and mimic it, but that just shows that they're sheeeeep.
<Trip> The NJO was originally modeled on the KotOR-era order
<Trip> From Arca & Nomi's time
<becca> I liked the shatterpoint thing! the only thing wrong with it is that Jaina never used it in her final duel with Jacen!
<RF> Shatterpoints are as old as the ANH Radio Drama...
<Trip> Which... was pretty godawful
<becca> Oh I love that thing!
<RF> Mace Windu style Shatterpoints, I mean.
<RF> Vader mentions them.
<RF> Though he doesn't call them shatterpoints.
<becca> in his awesome RD voice.
<jawastew> that's why I don't like it.. she didn't even use it
<Trip> So it makes sense that Luke would adopt stuff from the Ruusan Order as he finds out about it.
<jawastew> so it was just put in there
<jawastew> to have it in there
<RF> So Obi-wan's death may be a shatterpoint.
<RF> Which I really like.
<Trip> RF - apparently (from what I'm told) Denning's shatterpoints are literal
<Trip> Like, Luke can shatter stuff.
<RF> I know.
<RF> But I'm talking real shatterpoints. :p
<RF> Force Shatterpoints.
<becca> I think that perhaps he put it in there in an effort to power up Jaina a bit, to start getting her some respec' and jedi street cred
<RF> Vader calls it a "nexus in the Force" or something like that.
<becca> but really, she sould have used it against jacen
<Trip> Yeah, I remember that.
<marasolo> Vader liked his drama
<jawastew> probably becca
<becca> yeah, a nexus in the force with many possible futures or something
<Uli> RDarth Vader is my father
<jawastew> if she had exploded jacen
<Uli> I hope
<jawastew> into a million pieces
<becca> RadioDramaVader > ALL THINGS EVER
<jawastew> that would have been good
<becca> Uli: And mine.
*Uli high fives
<marasolo> There wouldn't have been anything for her to hold dramatically though
<becca> You should change our family tree to reflect this.
<jawastew> the pieces!
<Uli> I have
<Trip> ANHRadioDramaVader > All things ever
<Uli> that's what it already says
<Uli> ESB RadioDramaVader is awesome too
<becca> Trip - okay, amendment accepted though he was still cool in ESB
<Trip> Eh, he was too spazzy for me
<becca> marasolo: the Shatterpoint ability ought to apply to moments in time and people too
<becca> this si the first time it'sonly been used on items
<Trip> Not laconic enough
<Uli> "ASTROIDS DO NOT CONCERN ME ADMIRAL! I want that SHIP not excussesssss!"
<marasolo> That'd be cool
<becca> so she could have seen the shatterpoint of the fight, for instnace
<Uli> Red hot angry Vader was awesome.
<Trip> marasolo - basically, shatterpoints are not what Denning thinks they are. :P
<Trip> Although they are now.
<Trip> I guess.
<marasolo> Neither of us got the memo on it :-P
<Uli> all he did was extend the meaning
<Uli> you can see them in the Force and in physical objects now
<Uli> it's not really a huge concern, I don't think
<Trip> No, I don't have a problem with it in general
<marasolo> Isn't that how the whole SW story goes? Things like that embellished now and then?
<marasolo> Whether or not you like it...
<jawastew> that's eu! take the idea and run with it
<jawastew> run it into the ground..
<Uli> "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force"
<Uli> KJA "Hmmmmmm"
*Uli is now known as Uli|BriefStudy
<Havac> I want to see Jaina use shatterpoint to destroy a planet now.
<becca> yeah, like, she goes to the polar ice cap and...tap
<jawastew> jaina.. the new death star
<becca> so what did everyone make of jacen's death aside from the lack of shatterpoints?
<marasolo> *That's* what he meant by sword of the jedi...
<becca> i wasn't...thrilled by the needles.
<becca> that was just silly and really distracted me...
<jawastew> couldn't you picture that though?
<jawastew> only good thing about it
<Trip> I love Denning's sight gags
<Trip> And by love I mean love/hate
<Trip> they somehow amuse me more than Allston's
<jawastew> by that point, he just needed to die
<jawastew> it was boring
<becca> yeah, needles syrninges...whichever
*Trip thinks of Aurra Sing in a top hat and chortles
<becca> it was...silly
<marasolo> Definitely on the bizarre side
<jawastew> it wasn't big battle in anticipation because he'd already been half destroyed halfway through the book
<becca> i wish the fight had been longer, honestly, since hte first fight had jaina powered up by luke
<jawastew> "Oops, can't kill him now.. we have another 200 pages to write.."
<marasolo> They had to keep the page count under 300
<marasolo> Which was a bummer
<becca> i mena, i'm picking at random things that I'd have liked for preference rather than serious complains, but I wish that the twins had *spoken*
<Trip> So... "Boba" is effectively exiled from Mandalore, eh?
<RF> Good. Now he can go retire.
<becca> you know, "Jacen, you were my brother, I loved you!"
<Trip> Isn't that just a teens bit *convenient* for certain parties?
<RF> Like he was supposed to. 20 years ago.
<becca> marasolo - you know that for a fact? any reason why it couldn't be longer than three hundred?
<marasolo> I was jk
<becca> aaah, okay, sorry!
<jawastew> I'm going to be Mirta Gev for halloween!
<Trip> Certain parties who are gay?
<Trip> And surnamed Beviin?
<marasolo> Sorry.... I got it on Tuesday and was going to finish it then, but didn't want the last book to be done in a day.. So i finished it yesterday
<becca> "boba" won't retire though. because as we keep getting told the mandos aren't tied to mandalore
<becca> so he can just be mandalore and have even MORE angst. oh JOY
<jawastew> he could retire
<Trip> It means that Goran Beviin can now step in as Mandalore
<marasolo> Oh but his angst and joy was soo much fun
<Trip> after his pawn played his part in reuiniting the clans
<becca> his clones pawn
<Trip> all is proceeding as Krayt has forseen...
<marasolo> Felt bad for the guy that had the crush on Jaina...
<Trip> Except, Beviin doesn't want to be a Sith stooge
<marasolo> and Zekk
<Trip> Because who else gets killed in the plague?
<becca> yeah, I really REALLY hope that Zekk doesn't come back evil. that woudl be utterly lame.
<Trip> Oh, yeah. Venku.
<becca> Trip we have no idea
<becca> like really
<marasolo> And already done for him
<Trip> His Sith watchdog!
<Loyal_Imperial> He already did evil.
<sabarte> I suspect Venku will live
<becca> no, venku will probably be saved by that doctor jedidude
<RF> Bah. The Fett "family" is boring.
<dgxxx> an Imp is going to tell Jacen about the nanovirus
<sabarte> It'd be almost appropriate if he didn't
<marasolo> They could always come up with a cure for it
<Trip> Yep. But, he'll now know that Beviin is trying to double-cross the Sith.
<RF> I think it'd be hilarious if Fett wrote his memoirs.
<Trip> So: cue Mandalorian Civil War!
<RF> And lived off the proceeds for the rest of his life.
<sabarte> another random radio drama note:
<becca> he already has enough moeny to live for the rest of his life...
<Trip> "I remember when I was a boy, I had an eel..."
<RF> "Boba Fett: The Last One Standing"
<sabarte> Lando still needs to kill Fett, like he promised
<jawastew> was lando mentioned in lotf at all?
<Trip> yes. :|
<becca> the Looooooove Commander
<Trip> He had a pimp cane.
<Trip> :| :|
<RF> "Power cane"
<jawastew> i remember
<becca> he was also briefly in fury
<RF> I'm hoping he'll be in Falcon.
<becca> he gave Han his ship to help fight fires on kashyyyk
<becca> me too
<RF> Since, you know, he was the owner of it.
<marasolo> The Falcon preview totally killed the suspense over Allana though
<Trip> "I loved that eel. I remember, when my Dad would leave me alone, I would take it from its cage and hug it until I fell asleep."
<jawastew> i haven't read the falcon preview
<becca> but that's because I'm hoping that Falcon will ACTUALLY be a Han/Lando old man buddy movie with Allana thrown in for a two-men-and-a-baby feel
<Trip> "I'd sometimes sing to it, softly..."
<jawastew> I'm assumign it's chronologically after lotf right?
<becca> we don't know when its set, but afterwards, yes
<becca> i hope ony like...a year
<jawastew> shoulda been an OT thing
<RF> No, not disappointing.
<RF> Its a chance to redeem this era.
<becca> i'm tired of these five years jumps. Jaina'll be OLD by the time she does anything
<Trip> "Buc'ye jeti'i eeely"
<becca> I agree
<Trip> "dar'manda sey cho"
<becca> though the mention of daala as positive in that blurb worries me
<RF> And by this era I mean "early Legacy era"
<jawastew> err, in 1 book? i don't think so
<Trip> "dan'we'for tre'tas"
<RF> Not whole Legacy era.
<RF> No, not in one book.
<Trip> "ley'tor sey goh"
<RF> But it could be good.
<RF> Also, ponies.
<Trip> That was rock-a-by-eely in mandoese
<becca> it could make the prospect of future books better
<RF> Really, though.
<Trip> RF - nothing can redeem LotF
<RF> We have an awesome book schedule lined up now.
<RF> Coruscant Knights.
<becca> A Han and Lando Buddy Movie Book TOTALLY would redeem large parts of it.
*becca is stubborn
<RF> And then there's Order 66 and the Clone Wars novels.
<jawastew> i'm with u there becca..
<Trip> Well, TBH
<RF> Who knows how thosell be.
<RF> And TFU.
<Trip> I'm pretty much totally turned off to SW books...
<RF> So am I.
<sabarte> I dunno about Coruscant Nights
<jawastew> what's the timeline for those?
<Trip> I'm not even like disdainful or anything
<Trip> just wholly meh
<RF> Dark Times era.
<sabarte> But Mindor will probably be good for those who like that stuff
<Trip> I can't even get fired up about Mindor
<jawastew> thank you
<marasolo> I'm meh to the prequel stuff
<RF> You don't like Luke.
<becca> I'm looking forward to Mindor and MF. Coruscant Nights I'll...consider buying. I'm not a huge PT era fan but...PULP!
<sabarte> and I'll read anything with Luceno's name on it.
<Trip> Yeah, but I love Stover.
<becca> O66 I won't buy
<RF> Order 66 will piss people off.
<Trip> It's just... meh. Whatever.
<RF> Clone army numbers? Check.
<dgxxx> Disk 3 finished
<becca> when are these clone wars novels coming out and are these the Karen Millar/Karen Traviss teamup books?
<RF> Massive retcons? Check.
<jawastew> i think I'm the only one who likes the commandos..
<sabarte> The first clone wars novel is in late July, right?
<RF> Unnecessary crap? Check.
<Trip> We don't know much, only that Traviss is doing the novelization of the movie.
<sabarte> That's Traviss
<jawastew> and looking forward to 066...
<RF> Kriffing with Fenn Shysa? Check. :|
<sabarte> Hopefully without clone numbers...
<Dunc> I don't read prequel books.
<becca> oh, the novelisation of the cartoon?
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<dgxxx> I bet they choose her cause of the REvelation sell figures
<becca> neither do I mostly.
<becca> dg doubtful since they only got those in february
<dgxxx> oh :|
<Dunc> OH HEY INVINCIBLE?
<dgxxx> then they can see the future
<sabarte> Traviss writes really fast
<becca> ...good point
<RF> She's done with O66 already.
<sabarte> Easier for her to fit another book in
<RF> And probably with CW already.
<RF> So, yeah.
*Dunc scrambles for Invincible topic
<sabarte> While Allston might be late with it like he was with Betrayal, and there's no time :P
<Dunc> What hasn't been covered?
<RF> Nothing. :p
<becca> Jaina's scene after jacne's dead?
<RF> Easter eggs?
<jawastew> who thinks he's dead?
<becca> that whole chucking jag at the wall thing?
<becca> I don't think he's dead
<whiskers> I figure this IRC stuff out and it's almost over...
*RF changes topic to 'Zekk "I have No Last Name" Zekk.'
<Trip> You didn't miss much
<becca> but I really hope he doesn't come back evil
<Havac> He's not dead.
<Trip> And yeah, he's not dead.
<sabarte> What's with Jaina and throwing people into walls in LOTF?
<Havac> I really, really don't want him evil, though.
<Trip> It's /Denning/
<becca> because coming back evil would be such a cliche
<dgxxx> well I'm in the part where Jacen talks with Mirta
<jawastew> but he did the evil thing already
<sabarte> It's really...immature of her
<RF> He better not be evil.
<Havac> Though I do like the idea of Ship picking him up.
<RF> That's so damn cliche.
<Havac> It makes sense.
<dgxxx> and the doctah takes a sample to make the AntiFett virus
<becca> to be fair to her at the time, sabs, she's gone mad with grief.
<sabarte> That'd be YJK villain number....4.
<sabarte> why don't they make Corran evil?
<Trip> I like the idea of them finding his corpse and creating a /ghoula/
<sabarte> it would make just as much sense.
<Dunc> We never did find out what happened to Ship... And he had that weird darkside moment....
<Trip> the first Knight Draco
<RF> Because Horsey would go nuts.
<jawastew> it was a bad batch of baby jedis
<becca> I don't mind so much him being found by Ship
<dgxxx> yeah we needed toknow more about Zekk
<RF> We're shipping Ship/Zekk? :p
<becca> but I mind him going evil easily because...he's Zekk. He's...so upstanding about that despite being very vulnerable
<jawastew> there were a lot of things that were introduced and then just dropped in LoTF
<dgxxx> good one RF
<Trip> I 'ship Ship/Ship
<Havac> I'd like it if Ship grabbed him, but he resisted turning and came back to do his own thing.
<Havac> But Zekk is too much of a straight-arrow.
<Havac> I /like/ that about him.
<dgxxx> he is a talkin tree
<Havac> I wouldn't want him to lose it.
<becca> And he's like...one of the few Jedi Knights from that generation we have LEFT
<Dunc> Jawastew: Not dropped. Plotpoints they're saving for later. :P
<Trip> Uh... I dunno about that
<Uli|BriefStudy> And he can come back and Jaina can say: "What happened?"
<becca> Hav - that's exactly how I feel
<Uli|BriefStudy> and he can go: "I found a new ship"
<Trip> Zekk's a straigh-arrow because, inside, he's batshit crazy
<Uli|BriefStudy> and all teh fanboys/girls can laugh
<Dunc> But that generation was mostly fail
<RF> They all fail.
<Trip> He's so hardcore good because he /can't/ let the facade crack
<becca> I don't wnt him evil
<sabarte> Zekk already went evil
<jawastew> plotpoints blah blah blah
<sabarte> he's over it.
<RF> Yes. He had his cape.
<Trip> I thought Fury established that pretty conclusively...
<marasolo> His only purpose in life now is to pointlessly chase Jaina
<sabarte> the YJK all fail. :P
<becca> but Zekk while perhaps not interesting, was at least solid, stabe and *there* to be used
<jawastew> no, he's over that too
<sabarte> They've been written out of the story in favor of Ben
<sabarte> a shame.
<jawastew> maybe he will go bad
<becca> and they don't seem able to create new characters sooooo
<Trip> But he wasn't stable...
<Havac> Trip: it's true that it's always a struggle.
<Havac> I can buy him losing his struggle.
<Havac> I just . . . don't want to have to.
<RF> I hate that idea, though.
<becca> but it wouldn't be that interesting to me
<becca> it's...really cliche
<RF> Why must Jedi always struggle with the dark side internally.
<Trip> Seriously, didn't /Fury/ pretty much show that he's a seething mass of anger and such and he just keeps it buried?
<RF> Its boring.
<RF> And been done to death...
<becca> Trip, actually no. I didn't get that frm Fury at all
<RF> I want a good Jedi be good.
<RF> Like Zayne.
<becca> Zekk strikes me more as a Zayne type.
<becca> And dammit, if they want jaina with jag, just have her kriffing choose jag!
<Trip> Jacen was a Zayne type...
<RF> I'd really like that.
<RF> Zayne's jokes are not that corny...
<marasolo> Now Jag will be too busy for her... sad and funy
<Trip> True. :P
<becca> I'd totally read the adventures of Zekk and his Evil Ship trying to get home.
<marasolo> Good idea becca
<Trip> I want Ship to find Ship
<Trip> And they can have baby Ships
<dgxxx> hmm Jaina is fighting with Zekk and JAg..that's.. perv
<becca> hang on, how many ships are there?
<marasolo> And a ship lullaby?
<Trip> There's that Ship from marvel
<Trip> The Vong ship
<Trip> named Ship
<becca> oh, okay
<Trip> The one Luke and Leia get stuck on
<Trip> Marvel #38, I think
<Uli|BriefStudy> with the tentacles!
<marasolo> Tentacles are always good
<Uli|BriefStudy> and leia being... uh, on the ground
<RF> That Ship.
<Trip> Yeah, so Ship and Ship can have little Ships
<jawastew> ship empire?
<Trip> A Ship plantation!
<RF> No, that's when they meet Vuffi Raa's people.
<becca> also - re: the last lines of the book, I thought it was a little creepy that han and leia were all, "Look! We got you a new sister!"
<Trip> It'll be a... ship sensation...
<becca> not like, "Here's your niece..."
<marasolo> That was freaky
<Trip> What now?
<Dunc> Oh, and Amelia? Bad, bad name
<RF> "We're old, but we can still pop em out!"
<Havac> That's just stupid.
<Trip> XD @ Leia
<Dunc> Like, bad fanfic name.
<marasolo> Yes, I hope it goes away
<Trip> Poor Allana
<becca> Yeah. But she's referred to as Allana in the MF blurb
<RF> Dunc, all names are bad fanfic names. :p
<becca> so hopefully it'll be Amelia as a cover, but Allana in private
<Havac> Like no one is going to connect the kid who looks like a little Jacen and has an A-name suddenly living with the Solos.
<marasolo> "Our next children..."
<whiskers> Becca: I thing, or at least hope, that's the way it's going to be
<jawastew> well she's got a wig
<Havac> Trip: Leia is Gollum?
<marasolo> She just needs plastic surgery for her nose
<becca> Actually, I don't think that's such a problem. Leia took a padawan. No one knos Jacen had a kid or suspected it was allana
<becca> so...that's less of a prblem. she takes a padawan, and cus said padawan is an orphan gets legal custody of her. Meh
<Trip> I still can't believe that the galaxy is collectively that dumb.
<marasolo> It is
<becca> What's weirder is the whole telling Allana that Jaina's gonna be her new sister...
<Trip> I mean, yeah, the whole twelve-month-pregnancy.
<Trip> BUT STILL
<RF> This is the GFFA. They're dumb. :p
<Trip> Although the Luke/Mara exchange in Tempest was amusing
<becca> it's the aftermath of a war. The Jedi Order takes in a war orphan and a woman who recently lost her son fosters her
<Trip> Mara: "You know, maybe Allana is Jac-"
<RF> I'm sure its in the holotabloids, though.
<Trip> Luke: "HAH HAH Mara you're such an idiot."
<dgxxx> hehe Jaina is all Karate Kid now
<RF> Heck, I'm sure some holotabloids have speculated "TK/Luke"
<Trip> Huh, yeah, speaking of that...
<Trip> I've been rereading the YJK
<Trip> in sections
<Havac> If the tabloids can come up with "Jacen killed Mara" they can come up with "Allana is Jacen's kid."
<Trip> (FOR RESEARCH OKAY!)
<marasolo> I've been meaning to do that too
<RF> McEwok is right, isn't he?
<becca> oh god is this going to be like the naked horse girl?
<Trip> But yeah.
<Trip> McE is right.
<RF> Luke/Tenel Ka.
<RF> So weird.
<becca> yeah, but if the tabloids come up with it you can bet that they just made it all up...
<Trip> Tenel Ka has a thing for Luke, at least.
<RF> KJA makes it easy to... misinterpret things.
<jawastew> it runs in the family
<Trip> As a fourteen-year-old.
<becca> that's...almost worse than naked bare-breasted teenage horsegirls.
<Havac> No it's not.
<RF> Read that sentence again.
<Havac> Naked horsegirl/boy love is worse.
<RF> No it's not.
<becca> No it's not.
<Trip> But guys
<Trip> The YJK is awesome
<Loyal_Imperial> No, it's not.
<Trip> it PREVENTS SUICIDE
<becca> at least they're both age-appropriate. If naked in a kids book.
<Trip> Okay, that was kinda low. :/
<Havac> Teenage girl crushing on an older guy is . . . something that happens.
<becca> that was kinda low
<becca> yeah but LUKE?!
*Trip is a dick
<becca> she needs some self respect. And another ARM.
<Havac> Naked horsegirl love . . . should NOT happen.
<whiskers> The last atc is annoying with its CONSTANT anti-drug message. It beats you over the head with it.
<Trip> I'm still holding out hope for TorsoTenel
<Trip> TorsoTenel/Luke, rather
<RF> that was annoying.
<becca> BUT DRUGS ARE BAD!
<sabarte> save the whaladons!
<Havac> Don't pollute Duro!
<RF> "It's short for brown haze."
<becca> I love GODV
<Havac> ZTHR, I love you.
<becca> I actually own the first three books...
<Trip> "Diversity is Fascism!"
*RF loves how we're talking about everything but Invincible.
<Trip> Oh wait, we're on GoDV now
<RF> Yes. GoDV.
<becca> we spoke about invincible for like an hour before you got here!
<RF> We need a thread.
*dgxxx is listening Invincible so he is in topic
<Trip> Plus /Invincible/ is boring
<Dunc> What about Corellia?
<becca> we just...ran out of stuff to say. and it was...interesting how little people wanted to comment on jacne's actual death
<Dunc> Remember how they started a war?
<becca> What /about/ Corellia?
<becca> it's just...dropped
<Loyal_Imperial> But apparently the author's don't.
<Havac> See my post in the review thread.
<Havac> Troy dropped EVERYTHING.
<becca> I mean, I'm guessing that with a more moderate CoS willing to give Corellia better terms, the negotiations could resume
<becca> but they couldn't have given us a sentence saying that?!
<Loyal_Imperial> You know, something just crossed my mind.
<jawastew> heeeeeeey maybe they'll talk about that in MF
<Loyal_Imperial> I wonder...might they, some day, do a second book running at the same time as Invincible covering what they didn't show us here?
<marasolo> A lot more stuff should have been wrapped up in this book, considering it's the last of this series
<Loyal_Imperial> Just too much stuff was absent to make sense.
<dgxxx> till now no Niathal :|
<jawastew> Dunc said it's for later plot points ;p
<becca> argh. really, this book is awesome on its own, but fails as part of a series.
<dgxxx> that's TOO clever for Del Rey
<sabarte> we need a thread
<sabarte> covering the dropped plot points of LOTF
<jawastew> you could make a book out of that
<Loyal_Imperial> It'd be past the word count limit, I'd think...
<dgxxx> "Diary of the War: A LOTF extra book"
<Loyal_Imperial> I'm off to read, night all.
*Uli|BriefStudy is now known as Uli
*Loyal_Imperial has left #eu
<becca> night LI!
<marasolo> Only as part of a hyperspace or whatever subscription of course
<Uli> They do need some sort of... LotF filler books
<Uli> or a "LotF Sourcebook"
<RF> They could use the legacyoftheforce.com website.
<RF> And post extra info.
<RF> Like *some* authors do.
<RF> But noooooooo.
<becca> Uli, that's...damn ironic considering they spend 7 books doing nothing BUT filler
<marasolo> Like the other half of this book that should have been included?
<becca> and then the last book ends up...needing filler
<Uli> But they could give us all the meat in a sourcebook
<Uli> It'd be good too
<Uli> becuase it'd deal with *facts*
<Trip> Meh. Much as I hate cop-outs, they need to just zoom the camera back and have Jacen go "damn, Voren, that was a shitty holodrama."
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<Trip> And then he can sue him for libel.
<Uli> and we'd get none of the bad characterisation
<becca> No. Because it would be published by WotC and I would be honourbound not to buy it.
<Uli> Yeah, Trip
<Uli> and then Luke can be the Darth Caedus Krayt mentions :D
<dgxxx> Hello Suzuki
<Uli> He did say "anotehr SKYWALKER gone to the dark side" after all
<becca> oh shit, we haven't even touched ont he mandos yet!
<Trip> I did
<becca> well, okay, but briefly
<Trip> I pointed out that Beviin was behind the nano-killer
<Uli> not, "Another of the Skywalker blood who was a solo gone to the dark side"
<Suzuki_Akira> Mandos are all that is important
<Suzuki_Akira> about the EU
<Trip> And that he's trying to double-cross the Sith
<Suzuki_Akira> trust me, I talked to Karen about this
<Uli> in fact
<Uli> that'd have been the best way to end invincible
<dgxxx> Luke: I knew , I knew , I knew
<becca> did she enlighten you?
<Trip> Suzuki - you okay there? :P
<Uli> All the shit's gone down
<Uli> Luke's being super creepy and weird
<Uli> then he sits up in bed, turns to Mara, and darkly says: "He exists."
<Trip> I gotta admit, I was kinda worried about you when I read the spoilers
<becca> but at least he's being super creepy and weird while powning mandos
<becca> I did just LOVE the bit where he verbally kicks the shit out of Fett
<Suzuki_Akira> speaking of which
<Suzuki_Akira> Luke sorta double crossed the shit out of them
<jawastew> that was good
<Trip> Uli - I forgot about that part in /Betrayal/
<Trip> Goddammit Aaron.
<Dunc> It almost made up for that endless first chapter...
<Suzuki_Akira> dark side y/n?
<becca> yup, he did, andthat's part of what makes him creepy
<Trip> Why couldn't /Betrayal/ have been shitty?
<becca> oh, we alreayd voted on that! we got 3 darkside 2 Leto II from DUNE, one chair and two abstains!
<Suzuki_Akira> one chair?
<Trip> is a chair
<Dunc> I just really hope this puts them off the round-robin series for a while.
<becca> but re: Mandos - even though luke double corssed 'em, they were trying to double-cross Luke as Luke so aptly pointed out
<marasolo> Single-author sets are better
<becca> and I did enjoy seeing SOMEONE call Fett out on his hypocrisy
<Trip> Dunc, why would it?
<Dunc> It's a hope, Trip.
<Trip> But LotF was a /success!/
<Trip> Look at the /sales!/
<Uli> The sales say it was!
<becca> I dunno, the NJO worked okay, but that wasn't quite the same, that was...even more unplanned if that makes sense?
<jawastew> single-author sets just means there's going to be super promo of an author's pet
<Dunc> LOTF was better than NJO
<jawastew> like chiss
<jawastew> or pilots
<jawastew> or mandos
<becca> like you couldn't have your own personal series going on because you only got one book?
<Uli> I dunno about sales, but I saw black sails and threw myself from a cliff.
<Trip> What was a #1 NYT Best Seller, hmm?
<Trip> Oh yeah, that's right.
<Trip> Revelation, bitches!
<Suzuki_Akira> I suppose they were trying to double cross him
<marasolo> But they kill of a major character for each author involved in these
<Suzuki_Akira> but since when was it acceptable to out treacherize the treacherous?
<Dunc> You know what, if they just give Traviss standalone Mando books? I WON'T HAVE TO READ THEM. See the beauty in that?
<Suzuki_Akira> and yes, I'm fully aware that "treacherize" is not a word.
<becca> Suzuki - it *isn't* and tha'ts part of why luke's so damn creepy
<becca> but I still enjoyed him pointing out boba's massive hypocrisy
<Suzuki_Akira> fair enough
<becca> Dunc: I agree!
<Uli> Luke: You're a clone anyway
<Uli> Boba: I know
<Uli> Luke: DO you?
<jawastew> I thought that's what the republic commando books were until LoTF
<Trip> Honestly, I can't even imagine what a hypothetical Traviss-written All-Mando-All-The-Time series would be /about/
<jawastew> then again, I don't really mind mandos too much
<marasolo> She would do it
<Trip> Her mandies mostly sit around a bloviate on stuff that makes her mad
<Uli> and wretching
<Suzuki_Akira> ITS MY JOB TO THINK ABOUT THE LOST LIVES
<Suzuki_Akira> MY JOB
<marasolo> And kriffing?
<Suzuki_Akira> NOT YOURS, JAINA
<Suzuki_Akira> MINE MINE MINE
<Suzuki_Akira> that was the creepy part for me.
<Uli> and... like, discussing how no-one can understand them
<Dunc> This series gave me mando overload. That's all I'm saying.
<Trip> Suzuki, you remember the prologue to /Tatooine Ghost?/
<becca> Suzuki - you're aware that Luke actually manages - during that speech - to exactly mimic a propehcy of himself as a sith lord?
<Trip> Because all of us forgot it
<Trip> Until McEwok pointed it out
<becca> well, we didn't forget the prophecy
<Trip> And then I looked it up
<becca> we forgot it was explicitly about *LUKE*
<Trip> and holy crap, fellas
<becca> we thought it was generic
<Trip> Yeah, that's what I mean
<Uli> White Eyes is Luuke
<Trip> we forgot that it was Luke
<Uli> I SAID IT FIRST
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*Uli says: that is all.
<Havac> Uli: I . . . came up with that last night.
*Uli hugs Dunc's knees
<Havac> On my own too.
<Uli> Damn damn damn
<Havac> I agree.
<Havac> It would be perfect.
<Trip> I'm sure E_T said it before either of you
<Uli> It would be cool.
<a_tree> what are all the people doing here?
<Suzuki_Akira> if Luke goes Sith
<Havac> I just meant that "I get it too."
<Dunc> Invincible chat
<Havac> I'm not E_T. :|
<Suzuki_Akira> that will have undone a good decade or so of character development
<Suzuki_Akira> and would just be a really bad idea
<becca> Well I realised on my own that the blazing eyes were not a callback, btu I think a lot of peopel saw that. I totally missed the verbal "mine - mine" until someone on the fourms pointed it out
<becca> and I REALLY forgot that Luke was that guy
<Trip> Suzuki - I don't think he'll ever go Sith
<Suzuki_Akira> I'm *hoping* that the idea was to show that Luke was tainted
<Suzuki_Akira> and they just went overboard
<becca> SA - yes, it WOULD be a really bad idea at this point because there's no way they can run with it and it's a story they just *did* with Jacen
<Uli> No, Becca, it'd be great
<Trip> I've always thought Luke was an ass, though
<Uli> see, Luke goes bad
<becca> I have *no* expectation they'll actually go this way
<Uli> then STARKILLER
<Uli> shows up
<Uli> to save the day
<Uli> it's perfect
<Trip> So I basically see him just getting more and more overtly, uh... bad
<Uli> and Juno can be the new COS
<Suzuki_Akira> with his Star Destroyer throwing powers
<becca> but still...in isolation it's compelling, and now it's there they can't ignore it so...blergh.
<Suzuki_Akira> seriously, pulling a Star Destroyer, lolwut?
<Uli> Maybe Luke is gonna pull a Revan
<Uli> head off into the unknown regions and not tell anyone anything
<Uli> to die alone and defeat the true sith within himself ;)
<becca> I would consider that a special gift to me.
<Trip> What now?
<Trip> Luke and a SD, explain plz?
<Uli> It's in reference to my Starkiller gag, I think
<Trip> Oh, I see now
<Uli> how Rhett Starkiller will show up and save the day
<Trip> Never mind
<Trip> I hope we do get a LotF sourcebook
<Uli> A MASSIVE one
<Suzuki_Akira> do we know his name is Rhett now?
<Trip> solely so I can see a StealthX
<Trip> With CLAWS
<whiskers> I need a Legacy sourcebook. BAD
<Uli> Rhett's a joke name, Sukuzi ;)
<Uli> secRET ;)
<a_tree> that's weird
<Uli> he'll proabbyl be Kane
<Trip> Azzt - what, Rhett or claws?
<Uli> Kane Starkiller, son of Kento Starkiller
<Suzuki_Akira> Big Daddy Kane
<marasolo> I like Rhett though
<dgxxx> Luke is goin all wizard I-know-it-all right?
<Uli> which'll be annoying, since I want Kol's dad to be Kane.
<dgxxx> he is "gone" again :|
<a_tree> Trip: Rhett=azzt+rhell?? o.O
<Uli> Is Ben knighted in this book, then?
<becca> well if Cade isn't a reference to Caedus, there can be two Kanes.
<Suzuki_Akira> Why is Luke asleep now while we need him most?!
<becca> there's another Ganner
<Uli> If so that's extremely dumb.
<a_tree> or so
<becca> Uli - no, but he's referred to as a Knight numerous times and yes it is dumb
<Uli> Right... just say it's an error
<Uli> I bet Luceno will.
<jawastew> off to finish homework, bye!
<becca> so I assume that when luke told him to go make a ligthsaber he was like...knighting him or whatever
<Uli> it means he got to level 7
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<Suzuki_Akira> I always thought Jedi Knight was just a generic name for a person of the Jedi ranks
<Uli> per the Saga RPG
<becca> well, we can just assume it's like when the twins got kngithed at the end of YJK AND in DW
<Uli> that's when a Jedi can build a lightsaber
<Uli> and when they can take the jedi knight prestige class
<marasolo> Bye, everyone... thanks for a nice trip back to IRC after 7 years away....
<becca> SA - but he's referred to as an apprentice thenlater as a knight
<Suzuki_Akira> like Jedi Knight is the umbrella within which are the levels of Paddywanz, Knightz, and Masturz
<Uli> come back sooner this time
<becca> later marasolo!
*marasolo has quit IRC
<Trip> THat's why we need a legacy sourcebook
<Trip> so we can see the Sith Battle Meditation feat
<Trip> that all Sith get
<Trip> when they level up
<Uli> that, obviously Lumiya TAUGHT Jacen
<Uli> even though Traviss forgot that
<Uli> it's so funny
<becca> honestly yes, I hope it's just that he's reached that stage of apprenticeship where he's constructed his own lightsaber and is on active assignment and doing misions
<becca> and later we'll get an official knighting
<Uli> Allston: Lumiya can teach you this
<becca> but I think the intention is othewise...
<Uli> Traviss: OMG I JUST GOT IT
<Suzuki_Akira> why should Traviss remember something
<Suzuki_Akira> like that
<Uli> Denning: The stuff Lumia had taught him...
<Uli> Still, *I* inerpret it as being
<Suzuki_Akira> that's just a detail, it doesn't even involve Mandos
<Uli> Jacen knows the theory
<Uli> from Lumia
<Uli> but hadn't been able to do it
<Uli> then after mara's killing it all clicked
<Uli> becuase he was properly immersed in the dark side
<Uli> so it was something he was taught :P
<Trip> Have I mentioned how much I wish they hadn't used Lumiya?
<Uli> still, it's stupid that every sith master has it.
<Uli> you jave
<Uli> should have been Asajj.
<sabarte> not Asajj
<becca> What did people make of tahiri?
<sabarte> Asajj needs to live :P
<Uli> Making Jacen into Dooknu
<Trip> I want Abel's Lumie back. :(
<sabarte> and totally never cross paths with anyone important again
<becca> I...still hate that she went dark cus it makes no sense, but I thought she was better handled in this one than previously
<sabarte> and/or turn into Ackmena
<sabarte> either works
<Uli> I didn't like that she was totally inconsistant, Trip
*Trip supports Ackmena
<Suzuki_Akira> Asajj being redeemed = lol
<Suzuki_Akira> redeeming fucking every darksider = lol
<Uli> Tempest: I HATE YOU LUKE AND EVERYTHING YOU STAND FOR, I *WILL* BRING YOUR FAMILY LEGACY FULL CIRCLE!
*Havac has quit IRC (Quit: I bid you all Dark Farewells!.)
<Uli> exile: I don't hate you luke, why would you think that?
<Suzuki_Akira> HEY GUISE WE SHUD REDEEM JACEN
<becca> I liked that Ben really wanted to save her because he saw his previous situation in her
<Uli> Exile; why don't you hold my hand?
<Suzuki_Akira> like they're coupons or something
<Trip> I didn't like that they blew off all the groundwork Abel set up.
*sabarte really really likes the idea that Asajj put on a wig and grew up to be Bea Arthur
<Trip> Hey, it works
<sabarte> It really does work :P
<Trip> YES IT DOES
*Uli changes topic to 'Sabs... No. :P.'
*Suzuki_Akira promptly jokes on his own vomit
<Suzuki_Akira> that should have been "chokes"
<Suzuki_Akira> I'm not sure how "ch" in my mind translated to a "j"
<Suzuki_Akira> but it just might work better this way.
<becca> who is Bea Arthur?
*sabarte grins cheerfully
<Uli> a wizard did it
<dgxxx> Sith Alchemy
<Uli> White Eyes is Luuke
<Suzuki_Akira> Bea Arthur is your mom
*Uli thinks about it more
<Suzuki_Akira> WHITE EYES IS NOT LUKE
<Trip> So, do you think we'll ever hear about Vongarella again?
<Suzuki_Akira> WHITE EYES IS...
<Uli> I said Luuke
<becca> no, my mom is Morrigan Corde
<Uli> mine too
<Suzuki_Akira> Kane Starkiller?
<RF> No way.
<Uli> but I have an oedipus complex
<Trip> Or did LotF completely fuck that.
<a_tree> Uli: :O
<RF> Thank you Uli.
<becca> but srsly, who is Bea Arthur?
<dgxxx> Eduardo StarKiller
<a_tree> NO, ULI
<Trip> Becca - an actress
<Suzuki_Akira> ever seen Golden Girls, Becca?
<RF> Google her.
<Uli> Morrigan's so hot it would be a crime not to want her
<Suzuki_Akira> she's the old one
<Uli> close biological relationship or not
<Trip> Uli - Morrigan squicks me out...
<Uli> She can squick me out any time :D
<becca> that's just because you're a blasphemous heathen and you're lucky mom doesn't maze you.
<Uli> My maze is just covered in pictures of her anyway