<Horsey> Can we start talking about Fury?
<LI> I've got it fresh in my memory after reading, excellent book.
<Dunc> What did everyone think?
<Horsey> I loved it!
<LI> Best one in the series so far.
<Kobe> awesome book
<Havac> I liked it.
<Horsey> I think Allston did a good job of using the next gen characters
<Horsey> It gives me hope for the future
<Havac> Yeah, the use of Valin was great.
<LI> And Kyle.
<Horsey> and Syal
<Havac> Allston impresses me more and more.
<Havac> I really want to see him write more.
<LI> I'll admit I was slightly bored by his first two books in this series, but the third really did it for me.
<LI> It finally feels like when he wrote the X-wing books.
<Horsey> You were bored with Exile?
<LI> A little.
<LI> Something just felt off.
<Horsey> That book was hilarious!
<LI> I'm not sure what it was, but I had trouble connecting with it.
<Havac> I loved both Betrayal and Exile.
<LI> Same with Betrayal.
<Havac> Tempest is probably the book I least connected with.
<Horsey> I love Allston's sense of humor
<Horsey> and I agree with Hav about Tempest
<LI> I'll agree that they were excellent, it just didn't feel like Allston, that's what I think the problem was for me.
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<Kyptastic> Tempest felt more like a standalone in some ways
<Havac> I don't know . . . Allston is versatile.
<Havac> He's capable of various feels.
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<LI> I'm not sure how to describe it, it just felt a little...forced before. Like he was following a strict plotline.
<Horsey> feel better dunc?
<Dunc> a little
<Dunc> i mostly feel guilty
<Havac> I feel innocent.
<Horsey> we'll be ok
<Horsey> Hav feels muscular
<Havac> Stop touching me.
<RF> ...
<Horsey> anyways
<Horsey> Who else really liked Valin?
<LI> Me!
<Horsey> I'm totally in love with this character and want to see more
<LI> He actually did something this time.
<Horsey> (not in love with in the same way that I'm in love with Corran)
<Havac> We need Allston to write a Valin book.
<Horsey> we do
<Havac> Just I, Jedi it.
<LI> We need Allston to write more books in general.
<LI> YES!
<LI> One of my all-time favorite books.
<rrs> I, Jedi, Jr.
<LI> First-person was excellent.
<Dunc> NO I, Jedi.
<Horsey> The line he said to Jacen was awesome
<Dunc> First person is bad baddy bad.
<Dunc> Jacen is such a nutcase
<Havac> First person is awesome.
<LI> Agreed.
<Havac> Makes me feel all noirish.
<Dunc> I now ship Jacen Solo/Cersai Lannister
<Havac> I ship using UPS.
<Dunc> ...No one here will get that.
<Horsey> I don't get it
<Havac> I know it's a SOIAF reference.
<Havac> Or whatever that series is called.
<LI> SOIAF?
<Kyptastic> Yep
<Havac> Song of Ice and Fire. The George R. R. Martin series.
<Dunc> Song of Ice and Fire, the GRR Martin books
<Kyptastic> They'd suit each other pretty well
<Dunc> She's basically Jacen in a skirt.
<LI> Ah, thanks.
<Dunc> Well, Darth Caedus.
<LI> I thought you meant Service-oriented architecture implementation framework.
<Havac> I don't think Jacen could get along with another Jacen.
<Dunc> Laughably incompetent.
<Horsey> call him Jacen, less letters to type
<LI> No, he wouldn't. Insane people don't usually get along.
<LI> Am I the only one who thinks Jacen's levels of insanity and competence vary between writers?
<Horsey> yes
<Dunc> Anyway, I wonder why Niathal still puts up with him... I suppose Traviss will explore that
<Horsey> Jacen is insane and incompetent from all authors
<Dunc> That's the EU for ya.
<LI> I just thought he seemed slightly more competent in Bloodlines and Sacrifice.
<Dunc> He's in his downward spiral
<Havac> I agree Jacen's characterizations change slightly.
<Horsey> You could say that he's getting worse
<Havac> But it's also that his character itself is changing.
<Dunc> It only makes sense he's losing it more each book
<Havac> He's losing it.
<Horsey> The dark side corrupts, et all
<LI> Unanimous.
<Dunc> indeed
<LI> He's definitely losing it, if he hasn't lost it already.
<Horsey> Why do you think Han was written to be afraid of Allana at the end as a grandpa?
<Havac> He hasn't. Not mentally. In terms of being completely under the influence of the dark side, yeah, he's given in all the way.
<Horsey> afraid might be the wrong word
<Horsey> but he had kids and was a good dad
<Havac> He was . . . nervous.
<Dunc> Shocked
<LI> Surprised.
<LI> Stunned.
<Dunc> 'The kid had sex?!?'
<Havac> He had no idea she was his grandkid, he was shocked, he didn't know what was going on.
<Horsey> lol
<LI> I like that one.
<Havac> And it's the grandkid from the kid he just disowned.
<LI> That too.
<Havac> As much as anything else, I think that threw him.
<Jello> decessi
<Jello> Ah, yes, the Fury chat. Hm.
<LI> And a lot of things about Tenel Ka's reaction to Jacen's fall probably make sense now to them too.
<Horsey> English, jiggley one
<Jello> "I have arrived/returned" (in the proclamatory sense)
<Dunc> Yes, yes..
<LI> Better than the closest English word.
<Dunc> So. Allana.
<Dunc> What do we think?
<LI> Care to clarify?
<Horsey> Do you think she's going to be stuck with Luke's Jedi group now?
<Kobe> so speaking of people with kids
<Horsey> She'd be safer there
<LI> Agreed.
<LI> Anywhere would be safer than that floating intrustion-magnet.
<LI> *intrusion
<rrs> I'm just happy she's not saying, "Yedi," and "Yacen" anymore
<LI> Yay!
<Horsey> Well Jacen already took her away from Hapes
<Kobe> Lando a father
<Dunc> It would certainly keep the Jedi safer. Or maybe not.
<Horsey> so she can't go back
<LI> Hapes is probably out of the question.
<Horsey> It would keep them safer as far as weapons of mass destruction
<LI> Anywhere Jacen knows would be out of the question at this point.
<LI> ....The Maw?
<Dunc> No...
<Dunc> Too KJA
<Kyptastic> He knows the Maw
<Horsey> lol
<Kyptastic> Allston used it
<Kyptastic> In EL
<LI> Where else do you hide someone from a revenge-bound Dark Lord of the Sith?
<Dunc> Dagobah!
<Dunc> Honestly, I have no idea
<LI> Indeed, anywhere is dangerous for them, given his level of obsession.
<Kobe> Zonama Sekot?
<LI> If they can find it first.
<Kobe> don't they still have people there?
<Horsey> I think Luke will use less populated worlds
<Horsey> because he doesn't want to endanger anyone else
<LI> Tahiri knows where it is, ZS is out of the question.
<Horsey> They need to get that girl away from Jacen
<Kobe> but it can move
<Horsey> or she's going to end up dead
<LI> Jacen knows Sekot too.
<LI> He could probably whatever-link with it and find it.
<Dunc> Maybe she'll stay with Han and Leia on the Falcon?
<Horsey> I could see that
<LI> Best idea yet.
<Dunc> It'd keep Jacen from shooting them again.
<LI> The only safe way to go.
<Horsey> Perhaps Uncle Jag will be on the Falcon too
<LI> It's always on the move, too.
<LI> Haha! Yes!
<Horsey> as her personal body guard
<Dunc> Jagged Fel, Nanny
<Horsey> lol
<LI> *Snort*
<LI> Jagged Fel, Co-pilot/Nanny
<Dunc> Zekk and Jag. Armed mannies on the go.
<LI> Excellent!
<Havac> Pfft. Put her on the Venture.
<Horsey> Just stick her with R2 and 3PO, those droids can't die so she'll be safe
<Dunc> While Jaina goes to MandoLand. :P
<LI> The Venture won't work.
<LI> Too risky.
<LI> Jacen could take it with ease.
<Havac> It's mobile and usually full of Jedi.
<LI> Never stopped him before.
<Havac> And kickass pilots.
<Horsey> Plus a few Antilles
<Dunc> Too big
<LI> He's insane enough to try it.
<Dunc> Easy to find.
<LI> Too slow, too.
<LI> Agreed, easy to track.
<Dunc> The falcon can be more inconspicious
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<Havac> It's in a massive galaxy, Dunc.
<LI> Giant target, painted red.
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<Havac> It has supply ships.
<Havac> It never has to leave deep space.
<Dunc> Lots of places to hide.
<LI> And has many customers.
<LI> Any of which could be bribed to keep track of it.
<Havac> Not if Booster kicks them off.
<LI> Then what's the difference between it and the Falcon?
<Havac> There's a reason Luke used it to keep the students safe for almost all the YVW.
<Dunc> I doubt he could run the thing with ONLY his close, personal friends.
<Havac> It's bigger, better-armed, and doesn't have to make port directly.
<Dunc> There's bound to be someone Jacen can use
<Havac> Well, that's the case anywhere.
<LI> The Falcon doesn't have as many connections to use against them.
<Havac> But like I said, it stayed secure through the entire YVW.
<Dunc> That was different.
<Havac> How so?
<LI> The Vong aren't Jacen.
<Havac> That's right. They're more people with more Peace Brigaders working for them.
<LI> And Jacen has the Force.
<Havac> And more territorial coverage.
<LI> He can sense Allana.
<Havac> Not if they surround her with ysalamiri.
<Dunc> This is getting pointless...
<rrs> Fett could watch her
<Havac> You've got to think outside the box.
<Havac> :p
<Dunc> I think we'll get enough Fett. :P
<Dunc> Speaking of... Jag, Jaina, and Zekk. Thoughts?
<Horsey> you can never have enough Fett! :p
<Havac> Jag's in.
<Dunc> Oh, sweetie...
<Dunc> Yes you can.
<LI> Jag.
<Horsey> I think Zekk is out and Jag is in!
<LI> Jag all the way.
<Horsey> I was kidding, dunc
<Dunc> I know. I'm just... :/
<rrs> That scene with Leia overhearing Jag talking about Jaina was great.
<Havac> Zekk's moving more to the background as Jag move more to the foreground.
<LI> Which is perfectly fine with me.
<Horsey> I would've like to see Zekk bite it
<Havac> Zekk's the sidekick. Jag's a character in his own right. I've not seen any J/Z setup since Tempest and tons of J/J setup since Tempest.
<Dunc> I don't mind Zekk. I'm glad he and Jag can be friends.
<Havac> I'm thinking Zekk might go out in Invincible.
<LI> I wouldn't be surprised.
<Dunc> Possibly.
<LI> Maybe Han too.
<Horsey> Its gonna be either Kyp or Corran
<Havac> I like Zekk and Jag as friends too.
<Horsey> :~(
<Dunc> No, they wouldn't kill Han.
<Havac> But I don't think Zekk's going to win out here.
<Kobe> Lando
<Dunc> The Mara thing rocked the boat enough in that respect.
<Havac> I just want him to get his own damn woman.
<Havac> Someone who will actually, you know, respect him.
<Dunc> Zekk/Jysella?
<rrs> Zekk/Seha
<Havac> She's too young.
<LI> Err, have they even met?
<Dunc> If Valin is almost 30, how old is she?
<Dunc> True.
<LI> Checking now.
<Kobe> mid-20s?
<LI> There's something about their ages.
<Dunc> I hate those kinds of ships. :D
<Havac> Jysella can't be older than 20.
<Dunc> Not important.
<LI> c. 15 ABY birth.
<LI> 25 years.
<Havac> Jysella did not exist in 19 ABY.
<Dunc> Anyway, I was just throwing out a name. :D
<Horsey> Jysella is closer to Ben's age
<Havac> She's no more than twenty.
<Dunc> Overall, I agree with Hav, Zekk can get hios own woman. Or man. Whatever.
<LI> Valin was born in 13 ABY.
<Havac> He's not Beviin.
<Horsey> Octa?
<LI> Octa?
<Havac> He can get a woman.
<Horsey> Octa/Zekk
<Dunc> Who is Octa?
<LI> Octa Ramis.
<Havac> Octa Ramis.
<LI> Jedi Master.
<Havac> Jedi Master.
<Dunc> ...
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<Havac> Dammit, LI.
<Horsey> She was in Fury, Dunc
<LI> What?
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<Dunc> Really?
<LI> Yes.
<Horsey> yup
<Dunc> I only read it once.
<Havac> Yeah. She's, you know, a Jedi Master. On the Council.
<Dunc> Hey, maybe Zekk can end up with Syal.
<Havac> Was part of Kyp's faction during the YVW.
<Havac> NO.
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<Havac> He is not worthy.
<Jello|NoComment> >:(
<Dunc> ha ha
<Horsey> whoa
<Jello|NoComment> you did that on purpose!
<Horsey> at least you gave Jello something to talk about
<Dunc> What?
<Horsey> Jello is obsessed with Syal
<Jello|NoComment> don't play innocent, Dunc
<LI> Ah.
<Horsey> she's one of the only Rebels he admires
<LI> Why?
<Jello|NoComment> She's not a Rebel.
<Dunc> I thought he was obsessed with Jaina?
<Kobe> Zekk can go "comfort" Tenel Ka
<Jello|NoComment> No, just her womb.
<LI> *Snort*
* Dunc facepalms.
<Havac> Syal and Valin. :p
<LI> Why not?
<Horsey> I'd go for that one
* Dunc shrugs
<LI> Sure, that works.
<Kyptastic> Yeah, let's make everyone interrelated...
<Havac> Of course. :p
<Horsey> they already all are
<LI> Aren't they all?
<Kobe> I'd still like to know what everyone thinks of Lando's announcement
<Dunc> Kyp: That's the tradition.
<Havac> I want Tycho to have some kids, dammit.
<LI> They'll be related one way or another.
<LI> Agreed.
<rrs> more Corellian inbreeding
<Horsey> Its about time, Kobe
<Havac> Lando having a kid is the greatest thing ever.
<LI> Hopefully he's not dead.
<LI> Agreed, about time.
<Dunc> I'm suprised they didn't give us mini!Lando earlier, honestly?
<LI> Me too.
<Horsey> hopefully who isn't dead?
<LI> Tycho.
<Havac> Tycho's alive.
<LI> I think he's stunned.
<Horsey> he's alive
<Havac> It was a stun blast.
<LI> Vague wording just worries me.
<LI> Especially with continuity between authors.
<Dunc> Though I am happy Ben didn't get the YJK posse treatment.
<Horsey> It was pretty clear at the end
<Havac> I just want to see more of him after Fury.
<LI> Me too.
<Havac> And I want him and Winter to have some damn kids.
<LI> Agreed.
<Havac> Fury hinted at it.
<Dunc> Though part of me wonders if wee!Lando is there to tie into Legacy.
<LI> Must be.
<LI> We'll see Calrissians in Legacy soon enough.
<Havac> No, I think Allston just wanted to have an impact and give the poor guy a kid.
<Havac> He wanted to make some next-generation characters and carry on the name.
<LI> ...Syn? *laughter*
<Horsey> Boy or girl?
<Havac> Syn is not worthy of the Calrissian name. He is not pimp enough.
<Havac> It had better be a boy.
<LI> Agreed, though it'd be a hilarious twist.
<Havac> I want Lando Jr., dammit.
<Havac> And I want that to be his name.
<LI> Lando Calrissian II.
<Havac> Lando Calrissian II.
<LI> Again!
<Dunc> Be on the lookout for filthy rich Corellians.
<Havac> That would be such a Lando thing to do.
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<Dunc> (Tendra is Corellian, right?)
* Dunc sets mode: +v starlit
<Havac> And I can just see Lando Jr.
<starlit> hey
<Havac> Tendra is Sacorrian.
<Dunc> Well, Han never did get Han Solo Jr...
<Havac> Lando is Seroccan, I think.
<rrs> How old is Tendra?
<LI> Socorron.
<Havac> They're both Corellian Sector, but not Corellian system or Planet Corellia.
<Dunc> Really? I can't recall seeing a planet-origin for Lando...
<LI> Lando's from Socorro.
<Havac> Yeah, Sacorro.
<LI> It was in Insider 89.
<Havac> Got it typod with Serrocco.
<Kobe> Serrano
<Havac> There's Serrocco, Saccorria, and Socorro.
<LI> Socorro is Lando.
<Dunc> Sheesh
<Kobe> Serreno
<Dunc> That's worse than Dantooine and Tatooine
<Havac> Lando's ID was in Underworld, I think.
<LI> Serroco are the guys from KOTOR2.
<LI> Serenno is Dooku.
<Kobe> dunc, there was another one
<Kobe> Kinooine or something
<Kobe> I think
<Havac> There are a ton of ooines.
<LI> Cardooine.
<LI> Sestooine.
<LI> Ventooine.
<LI> Handooine.
<Dunc> Heh.
<Havac> There's a category on Wookieepedia.
<LI> Reltooine.
<Dunc> Makes sense
<LI> "List of planets ending in -ooine."
<Dunc> 'ooine' must 'land' in some languare
<LI> Must be.
<Havac> That's one of the things Erik asked Jason to handle in the Atlas.
<LI> Like "stan"
<Havac> ooine and aan.
<Horsey> Tatoo land?
<Horsey> lol
<Jello|NoComment> Lando is from the Lando system, obviously.
<Jello|NoComment> also known as Landooine
<Havac> Lando is from the Pimp System.
<LI> Lando from the planet Calrissia.
<Jello|NoComment> Pimp Sector.
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<Havac> Lando's not a system . . . he's a man from the system.
<Horsey> Let's talk about Kyle getting page time
<LI> Kyle!
<LI> The Katarn.
<Havac> Kyle as a character for the first time.
<Dunc> And a personality!
<Havac> Kickass.
<LI> The Beard.
<Dunc> Amazing.
<LI> Enough to make the book a 10/10.
<Jello> he's had a personality before
<Havac> Watch out for durasteel rails.
<LI> In the books?
<Havac> He's never had a personality in the novels.
<LI> Exactly.
<Dunc> I don't play games.
<Havac> He's just been a name and a handful of random lines.
<Horsey> lol Hav
<LI> The main series has rarely featured him.
<Dunc> Therefore, Kyle is big blank fanboy bait to me.
<Horsey> That exchange was the funniest since Ton/Face
<Havac> Well, you could read the novellas, Dunc.
<Dunc> No.
<LI> Ton/Face, great pair!
<Havac> I love Ton.
<LI> Me too.
<LI> One of the best characters in the series.
<LI> One of my favorites.
<LI> They should bring back Face.
<Horsey> he was in the NJO
<LI> That was how many in-galaxy years ago now?
<Havac> I'm surprised we went all of Allston's LOTF without the Wraiths.
<LI> Agreed.
<Horsey> I don't pay attention to years
<Havac> Just one Nelprin cameo and the Donos in-reference.
<Havac> Both in Betrayal.
<LI> They should have shown up at least referenced with Jacen's GAG.
<Horsey> no way
<LI> "Referenced"
<Horsey> I don't want the Wraiths to be associated with GAG
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<LI> As in, Jacen wanting them out of the way.
<Horsey> However, Allston writing more Wraith books would've been fun until Traviss did the RC books
<LI> They're already an intelligence unit, Jacen runs the secret police, there should have been some mention there.
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<Havac> I really want to see Luke build up a coalition of all-stars.
<Dunc> That sounds like a TV special
<LI> I want him to at least spend one book being decisive.
<Dunc> LUKE SKYWALKER AND THE EU ALL-STARS!
<LI> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
<Havac> It started in Exile with him teaming up with Wedge and Corran and the Gang.
<Jello> SPIN?
<Jello> You want to see SPIN again?
<Dunc> The problem with Luke is he's STILL way too powerful.
<LI> SPIN?
<Havac> I want to see him build his third faction.
<Dunc> Though I love, love, love the rose petal line.
<Jello> Senate Planetary Intelligence Network
<Jello> See: GoDV
<Havac> I want Wedge, and Booster, and Karrde, and Gavin, and the Wraiths, and Tycho, and everyone.
* Dunc snickers
<LI> Never read it.
<Dunc> AARON ALLSTON'S EU ALL-STARS
<Jello> what?
<Kjazhed-Uhl> Good.
<Havac> I want them to get together and kick the shit out of some bad guys.
<Dunc> A stand-alone series.
<LI> Vader's glove.
<Havac> I bid you all Dark Greetings!
<LI> There are a few books I've missed, GoDV is one of them.
<Jello> That was an incredulous exclamation rather than an interrogative.
<LI> Why?
<Jello> It's GoDV.
<Jello> All fans must read it.
<Dunc> LI: You're better off. They are awful.
<Jello> No. They're an integral part of the saga.
<Dunc> Riiight.
<Havac> Zoochberry products for everyoneQ!
<Jello> It's like missing ESB.
<Dunc> And I'm a n00b.
<LI> I couldn't even find it, so that settles eerything.
<LI> *everything
<Jello> Well, yes, we all knew that, Dunc.
<Dunc> :P
<LI> Just like I could never get Courtship.
<Havac> GODV is *hilarious*.
<Jello> Another fine book.
<Havac> Hilariously bad, but still hilarious.
<Jello> CoPL should be everywhere, though.
<Dunc> Well, Courtship is pretty horrible, too. But still not as bad as GODV.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> Probably unintentionally so.
<Jello> I'm fairly sure it's still in print.
<Dunc> They all are.
<Jello> What? No, I recently reread it and it stands pretty well :-p
<Dunc> Erm.... ummm....
<Dunc> I won't go into it.
<Havac> Whuffa.
<Dunc> CoPL is one of the Bantam trifecta of horror.
<Kobe> that Bothan Jedi lives right?
<Kjazhed-Uhl> Yes.
<Kobe> Kolir?
<Dunc> The first herald, if you will.
<Havac> Kolir lives.
<Jello> oh come on, that's a totally unfair assertion
<LI> What part of Fury shall we discuss next, gentlebeings? And yes, the Bothan lives.
<Horsey> You'd better not have Crystal Star in that trifecta >:D
<Havac> COPL is better than TCS, POT, and TNR.
<Dunc> Hmm. More than a trifecta
<Jello> Yes.
<Havac> So your trifecta is shot.
<Jello> Call it a googleplex.
<Jello> :-p
<LI> Googolplex?
<Dunc> I called it 'pure vein of crap' somewhere
<LI> Which one?
<Dunc> CoPL, KJA, CS, Callista...
<Kjazhed-Uhl> Is this first time that we got a POV of Allana?
<LI> I think so.
<Havac> Possibly.
<Dunc> ANYWAY.
<LI> YES.
<Jello> RotJ.... Wedge's Gamble... Empire's End...
<Horsey> Well before she was talking in gaga talk so I sure hope so
<LI> *Ahem*
<Kjazhed-Uhl> I really liked those parts of Fury.
<Dunc> What did folks think of Ben's talk with Luke?
<LI> Good!
<Havac> I liked it.
<Horsey> It was very fitting
<Kobe> about time
<LI> Finally, some sense gets driven through his hard skull.
<Havac> Luke was understandably mopey, Ben kicked him out of it.
<Horsey> Luke needed someone to smack him
<LI> Agreed!
<Havac> Hopefully Luke will stay in kickass mode.
<LI> Smacking was much-desired.
<Dunc> Luke has often needed smacking. that's what mara was for.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> And now he has Ben for it.
<Havac> Across the face, not the ass.
<Dunc> Yes.
<LI> Yes, thank you for that clarification, it was badly needed.
<Dunc> Though I'm not really a big fan of Ben being Luke's apprentice.
<LI> Apprentice him to Kyle.
<Dunc> I was rooting for Kyp.
<Havac> I would prefer if Ben was apprenticed to another master just to bring someone else into the story.
<Havac> But I do like the father-son bonding element they have going.
<LI> Do you mean a new character or an old one?
<Dunc> They're awfully insular...
<Horsey> If Ben was apprenticed to Kyp, Kyle, or Corran though you'd know they were safe from dying
<Dunc> New or old. Just not a family member
<Havac> Well, I was rooting for Jaden Korr.
<Horsey> this way, they could still die
<LI> YES!
<Havac> As his master.
<LI> Jaden, definitely.
<LI> I've got to reinstall that game at some point.
<LI> Uninstalled it after it got a glitch.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> I wish the dark side ending was canonical.
<LI> I just wish it had better heads.
<Havac> Or Kyle, or Izal Waz.
<Dunc> Which game is this Jaden dude from?
<Havac> They'd both be good masters.
<Havac> Jedi Academy.
<LI> Jedi Academy.
<Dunc> hrm.
<LI> Again!
<Havac> The sequel to Jedi Knight II.
<LI> Jedi Knight II's sequel.
<LI> Again again!
<Horsey> I wish I could play those
<Horsey> :(
<Havac> You can.
<LI> Indeed.
<Horsey> I can't find them!
<Havac> I refuse to accept excuses.
<LI> Amazon.
<Horsey> Do you think Kyle should've died?
<LI> They have 5 brand new copies of JK2.
<LI> No.
<Havac> I would say no if just because he needs more love and development.
<LI> He needs to be in more books.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> By all accounts a lightsaber to the chest _should_ kill someone.
<LI> And train more apprentices.
<Havac> I'm certainly not opposed to the killing off of Masters, though.
<Horsey> Fanboys....
<LI> Me neither.
<LI> Kill off Streen.
<Horsey> Right KU
<LI> And the Dathomiri.
<Havac> It's just that . . . they're so underdeveloped that it seems a shame.
<Horsey> Also, Kam lived too
<LI> Ugh, I was surprised.
<LI> And slightly disappointed.
<Horsey> I was disappointed in that
<LI> Backtracking is a no-no.
<Havac> I want more of them before I see them die . . . but they really do need to start dying when they get mortal injuries.
<Horsey> If Corran bites it, I'm going to scream bias towards K names
<LI> Agreed.
<LI> Corran should be the next Grand Master.
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<LI> They've been setting that up for a while.
<Dunc> LI: Eww.
<Havac> I actually wouldn't mind Corran dying. He actually has been developed and used, and he has a son to carry on his name.
<LI> True, but there are good reasons not to.
<Horsey> I'm ok with Corran dying if Valin gets more page time
<Dunc> It ought to be someone younger. Luke's probably not going to die for a good long while
<Horsey> and I <3 Corran
<Havac> I don't want another Grand Master.
<LI> The Jedi need to develop a closer relationship with the GA after Jacen kicks the bucket, right?
<Horsey> JAINA!
<LI> Then the next leader will probably be a GA supporter.
<Horsey> We need a female grandmaster!
<Havac> They're supposed to be exceptional rarities, not something the Council always has.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> With all of the times that Corran has received a fake death...
<Dunc> Hav: I don't like that title, either
<Havac> No way should Jaina be GM.
<Horsey> lol KU
<LI> She's the Empress.
<LI> Not the Grand Master.
<LI> She can be GM of the Imperial Knights.
<Havac> The one GM I'd tolerate after Luke would be Leia if she'd actually bloody well train up and get down to being a Jedi.
<LI> Make Han the GM, he won't have any problems with future visions.
<Havac> But even there it's questionable.
<LI> So, how long do you think Kyp has left?
<LI> He seems to be on the fast track to death.
<Havac> I think someone is going down in Revelation and/or Invincible.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> I think he's going to kick it in Invincible.
<LI> Kyp, definitely for one.
<Havac> Be it Kyp, Kyle again, Corran, or Saba.
<LI> They've been paying attention to him, bad omens.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> Voren should appear in Invincible... :p
<LI> Voren?
<Havac> Voren should die.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> ...which is why I want him to be in Invincible.
<LI> Which Voren?
<Havac> Voren Na'al. Alliance historian/propagandist.
<LI> The historian?
<LI> Ah, him.
<LI> Yes, must die.
<LI> Replace with pro-Imperial, ASAP.
<LI> Imperial view of Legacy, that I'd like to see.
<LI> What do they think of Jacen, I wonder?
<Dunc> 'Serves you right?'
<LI> Maybe.
<LI> Worship him as Palpatine's spiritual successor?
<LI> I still think his character was a bit wasted.
<Horsey> Jacen's character is wasted?
<LI> Less insanity, more manipulation.
<Havac> I think Jacen will have been wasted if he goes out lousy.
<LI> Crazy was a bit of a waste.
<LI> To have him lose all the time.
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<Havac> If people would just do things the way I think they should . . . he'd be awesome.
<Horsey> I think it fits perfectly with his character
<Kjazhed-Uhl> I want Jacen to be redeemed.
<LI> No, no, no.
<LI> Redemption = bad.
<Horsey> Also, I <3 Allston for naming a ship after Texas A&M's mascot
<LI> Mascot?
<Horsey> Redemption = bad
<LI> Again?
<Havac> Frankly, though, I think Jacen's long been ruined by fanboy bitching, and anything they do with him that's popular would be a crappy story, and vice versa.
* Dunc sets mode: +v pacothetaco
<Havac> Well, Allston is Texan.
<Horsey> The shuttle's name is Reveille
<Horsey> but that's also a military term too
<Horsey> so most likely he didn't
<Horsey> but I can pretend
<LI> He could have been a fascinating mix of Vader and Palpatine, both manipulative and a frontline fighter.
<LI> A Sith with a reason.
<Havac> I like him best in Bloodlines and Betrayal.
<Jello> Lumiya could have been a mix of Vader and Palpatine
<Jello> they dropped the ball on her tremendously
<Havac> Coldly logical, making an uncanny amount of sense.
<Jello> she was a waste of time
<Horsey> Agreed Jello
<Horsey> they wasted Lumiya
<LI> Havac: Which one were you referring to?
<Havac> I don't know about wasted. I'd say they underused her.
<Horsey> Though, I still think she engineered all of this and thus the whole thing is her fault
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<Jello> under and misused, imo
<Horsey> I'm glad the bug slut finally bit the dust
<LI> Finally!
<Horsey> and the fact that Jag did makes it sooooooooooooooo much better
<LI> Nice way to go, too.
<LI> Yes!
<LI> Finally, something I always wanted to see happen.
<LI> Crushing someone's throat *without* the Force.
<Horsey> didn't he snap her neck?
<Dunc> Alema was always sort of being to me.
<Havac> IT does leave me wondering what Jag's going to do for the rest of the series, now.
<LI> Yeah, I was being general.
<Horsey> being what?
<Horsey> A whole lot of nothing, Hav
<LI> Jag the Nanny.
<LI> Jagged Fel, Millenium Falcon Pilot.
<Havac> I'd be interested in seeing if Traviss uses him.
<Horsey> I kinda want him to go with Jaina
<Havac> She hasn't yet.
<Horsey> but it didn't look like that was going to happen
<Jello> he needs to impregnate her.
<LI> *Snort*
<LI> Too soon, too soon.
<Havac> I like him as not just an elite pilot but this sort of elite Dark Jedi hunter.
<LI> Agreed, double the skills.
<Jello> No. Someone needs to knock that boy on the head and instruct him in his duty.
<LI> Twice the usefulness.
<Havac> A Jedi auxiliary in the best sense.
<LI> Agreed.
<LI> A non-Force user of the best sort.
<Havac> Now, we just need to see him buddy up with the Remnant.
<LI> Indeed.
<LI> I still have no clue how that's going to happen.
<Havac> Nor do I. It's perplexing.
<LI> Indeed, anything is likely to be extremely complicated.
<LI> Soontir must be up to something.
<Dunc> Maybe he can teach Force-less techniques to the Jedi
<LI> I always thought he was.
<Dunc> All the Jedi.
<Dunc> Not just jaina
<LI> I was referring to my other comment, Soontir.
<LI> I always thought he was up to something.
<LI> Plotting, manipulating, basically taking lessons from the Chiss.
<Havac> I really want someone to sort out the whole EOTH/Ascendancy situation.
<LI> Me too.
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<LI> Something needs to be explained.
<LI> Preferably everything.
<LI> Written by Zahn.
<Dunc> Good luck with that...
<Horsey> Do you think Jaina is going to spend the whole next book training?
<Horsey> so she doesn't fight Jacen until 9
<LI> Probably.
<Havac> Possibly.
<LI> At least half of it.
<Horsey> so are we looking at an actionless book?
<LI> We're looking at a Fett-centric book.
<Havac> I don't think so.
<Horsey> or will Jacen meet up with Luke/Leia again while going after Allana?
<Kjazhed-Uhl> I wonder what, if anything, Traviss might do with the Korriban Sith.
<Horsey> also, thank goodness Centerpoint was blown up
<Havac> There's still Ben's plotline of tracking things down, and it looks like we'll be seeing some Confederation action.
<Horsey> its about damn time
<LI> Yes! Centerpoint is gone!
<LI> Another superweapon bites the void.
<Havac> Plus Jacen will want Allana back.
<Havac> There's plenty of room for conflict while Jaina is out of it.
<LI> So, who thinks the Confederation goes next book?
<Havac> I think it might.
<Horsey> really?
<LI> They won't last much longer.
<LI> Not with Jacen angry and looking for something to take it out on.
<Horsey> Its odd, this chat is bombing because we all liked the book and don't have anything to complain about
<LI> He'd probably slag the planet at this point.
<LI> Agreed.
<LI> Strange, lack of controversy in Star Wars?
<Havac> I just hope we see more of their leadership.
<LI> Unbelievable.
<Havac> We need Phennir, dammit.
<LI> I want to hear about Drall.
<LI> Phennir!
<Dunc> Horsey: Heh.
<Jello> unlikely now
<Havac> Phennir, and Rodan.
<LI> Yes! He got characterization.
<Jello> the other authors won't use him
<Jello> that's for sure
<Havac> Give us some bloody Rodan.
<Dunc> I think the cht is going v. well. :D
<LI> If he's even still alive.
<Horsey> lol, Dunc
<LI> He could be very much dead by now.
<Havac> He's Fyor Rodan. He's a survivor.
<Dunc> Course, I'm always happy to see folks doing something that's not bitching. :D
<Horsey> True
<Havac> You know he'd evacuate.
<Horsey> I'm just confused and not used to it
<Horsey> I don't know how to act
<Horsey> I LOVE CORRAN!
<LI> My, how random.
<Havac> That's not random, not for Horsey.
<LI> Good point.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> Vibro was no Tenn Graneet what I still liked all two or three pages of his characterization.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> *but
<LI> Indeed.
<LI> I'm about halfway through Death Star now.
<Horsey> :DD
<LI> I was surprised that they actually gave a character to the guy who said "Stand by".
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* Horsey sets mode: +v Scoke
<Horsey> welcome
<Scoke> Hello all. First time chatting here. :)
<LI> 'Allo, 'allo.
<Horsey> YAY!!! First time chatter!
<Kjazhed-Uhl> Long time lurker, first time chatter. :p
<Horsey> talk radio shows...lol
<LI> Story of my life, right there in one sentence.
<Scoke> *lets the newbieness flow through him*
<Horsey> So did you read Fury?
<Scoke> Heck yeah. Just finished today.
<LI> Ah, fresh from the pages.
<Horsey> What did you like? dislike?
<Scoke> Gotta say, I loved it. Kept me interested throughout, like this series has right from the beginning.
<Dunc> Scoke!
<LI> Agreed.
<Horsey> So you're pleased with the whole series?
<Scoke> Yeah, I am. One of the few I think. ;)
<Scoke> Hey Dunc!
<LI> Or one of the many.
<Dunc> Welcome to the humble chat
<Jello> Humble...
<Scoke> The only thing I wasn't a fan of was the flow-walking.
<LI> Arg!
<Dunc> Well, aside from you, Jello.
<Jello> :)
<LI> Flow-walking was done wrong, in my opinion.
* Dunc gives Jello a kiss on his oversized forehead.
<Jello> my forehead is not that big :-(
<LI> Too interactive.
<Dunc> Figuratively, darling.
<Scoke> With the flow-walking, what that told me was that anything was possible now, they can go back in time, change the previous events in the series, etc.
<Horsey> I dislike that idea
<Scoke> And the first thing I thought of was, "Oh crap, they're going to bring Anakin back from the dead."
<LI> Me too.
<Horsey> though, they seem to be using it sparingly
<Horsey> however, if Jacen wasn't such an idiot he could really mess things up
<LI> It should die with Jacen.
<Havac> I hated the flow-walking.
<LI> It should have been more like a vision or a dream.
<Scoke> Not that I dislike Anakin Solo, he was my favorite character right up to his glorious death. But I kinda like it when the characters actually die, and it isn't some sort of trick, etc.
<Havac> Inferno kriffed it up.
<LI> The same way they see the future.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> I get the crazy impression that with the use of flow-walking and Force phantoms in this series, it might be building up to a flow-walking duel across time.
<LI> No, No, No, No.
<LI> NO.
<Havac> That would be hilarious.
<LI> *glare*
<LI> No joking about that.
<Havac> Hilarious, not good.
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<LI> Dimensional battles = bad.
* Horsey sets mode: +v LtNOWIS|away
<Scoke> Yes, they are using it sparingly though, I appreciate that. But I think they could have done without it and still the story would have worked.
<Jello> They could bring back Lord Vader and the Emperor.
<Scoke> Oh heck no.
<LI> NO.
<Jello> That would be beautiful.
<Horsey> lol
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<Horsey> that would be hilarious
<Scoke> *envisions Lord Vader walking up to Caedus, giving him a PWNAGE, and saying "You're doing it all wrong."*
<Horsey> cept Vader would still turn and then the Jedi would be unstoppable
<LI> Indeed.
<Dunc> HA HA
<LI> No bringing anybody back.
<LI> I want Anakin to be dead and stay dead.
<Dunc> If I had a good Caedus pic I'd totally icon that
<Jello> "Ur doin it wrong"
<LI> Wait for the Japanese release.
<Horsey> There's no such thing as a good Caedus pic
<LI> I want to see their covers. Badly.
<Scoke> Agreed. And I don't think it will happen. But there is that chance... Even seeing how crazy Tahiri was to see him, and Caedus was teaching her how to flow-walk... :|
<Jello> I am waiting for the IWoD cover.
<Scoke> Me too, the Japanese covers rock.
<Dunc> Me too. TOS keeps showing, like, the Jedi Appretice ones. :P
<LI> Agreed, I've got pictures of them all.
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<Dunc> Same ole movie character pics? NO ONE CARES.
* Horsey sets mode: +v darth_paul
<LI> They have the most accurate depictions of characters, in my opinion.
<Horsey> Jaina needs a cover
<Scoke> Last one I saw for the EU books was The Unseen Queen. Have any more been shown?
<Horsey> I'm gonna bitch if she doesn't get one
<LI> Nothing past DN.
<Havac> I hate the Japanese covers as covers.
<Havac> I also think they do a shitty Luke.
<Havac> Aside from that, they make good image resources.
<LI> I don't like Luke, so I don't mind.
<Dunc> No, nothing past the one where jacen is weirdly hot.
<Horsey> How can you not like Luke?
<Horsey> Why do people dislike Luke?
<LI> He's annoying.
<Dunc> Because sometimes he's a whiny bitch
<Scoke> Interested to hear your thoughts behind that. ;)
<Dunc> Bantam era. Prozac Luke. 'nuf said.
<LI> He's brought down an Empire and alien invaders and he still has trouble making decisions.
<Scoke> I do like what Ben told him in this book though, basically a verbal slappage saying "Get back to being a Grand Master."
<LI> Agreed.
<LI> He needed it.
<LI> For the last 20 years.
<Scoke> haha
<Horsey> I think he's been fairly badass in the last two books
<LI> So, Mon Calamari, who thinks it's the next big battle?
<Scoke> True enough. I do think Mara's death hit him harder than I thought it would, which was surprising. But I think it made him more interesting as a character.
<Havac> I doubt Mon Cal will be hit.
<Horsey> He's going after Hapes
<LI> Didn't say hit, I said battle.
<Scoke> Oh yeah, Caedus doesn't like them anymore. Just because.
<Havac> The main front seems to be the Colonies and Core.
<LI> Niathal.
<LI> She might flee back to Calamari.
<Havac> I don't think it's likely.
<LI> Jacen probably wants her dead. Soon.
<Scoke> Niathal will definitely have some sort of battle with Caedus before the end. I don't think she'll be with him for long.
<LI> He'll be after her very soon.
<LI> Probably in the next book.
<LI> Plus his comments about not liking the fish-folk.
<Scoke> I'm surprised she's put up with him this long.
<Havac> Going after her will split the GA, which I think is coming.
<LI> It won't split it. GA + Jedi vs. Jacen and....Tahiri?
<Horsey> fear will keep some people with Jacen
<LI> Depends on his idiocy.
<Scoke> There wasn't a word spoken about Tahiri in this book I think. I was wondering what was up with her.
<LI> If he keeps screwing up.....
<Havac> Jacen will retain a loyalist faction because of fear and the fact that he'll probably be able to paint Niathal as a traitor.
<LI> There was a mention in there.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> When it came to the StealthX that Jacen ultimately stole.
<Scoke> Heck, they don't even take Caedus seriously anymore. Like when they were having the whole fake diplomatic session before Centerpoint fired.
<Dunc> The X-Wing
<Dunc> StealthX, sorry
<LI> The final book will probably be Jacen vs. Jaina, so that leaves the Confederation and the Alliance to be dealt with before that fight.
<Havac> It would be interesting if Jacen was out of power by the end of Revelation.
<LI> He will be.
<Havac> And Invincible was just about him on the run.
<LI> I don't doubt it.
<Horsey> Jacen talked about how he'd been taking her back to see Anakin
<Kjazhed-Uhl> And Jacen also noted his dislike for Tahiri's wanting him to take her back to see Anakin's death a thousand times.
<LI> That's it.
<Scoke> That's what I'm thinking. Jacen Vs. Jaina. Just like it was prophecized in the NJO, just like when they "fought" in the YJK books...
<LI> I think the Confederation War will be finished in Revelation, from the looks of the cover.
<LI> And Jacen will announce his reign as Dark Lord of the Sith.
<LI> And then *everybody* will be after him.
<Scoke> What of the Sith on Korriban? What do you think they will do about this? Will they have a final say at the end?
<Dunc> Or, they'll just LOL
<Kjazhed-Uhl> After The Cestus Deception, I do not trust covers anymore.
<Horsey> I think the Sith will disappear and not interfere
<Horsey> They'll keep the ship
<LI> What was wrong with Cestus?
<Havac> I think they'll do a few more things like in Fury.
<Havac> Blow a few things up.
<Dunc> covers are not there to be realistic about the book's content. They are there to sell the book
<Havac> Assassinate a few people.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> Dooku.
<LI> Ah, that.
<Havac> Mysterious but key behind-the-scenes stuff.
<Scoke> I'm trying to think how it will connect with the Legacy comics. I mean, I'm sure Darth Krayt was with those Sith there... Maybe?
<LI> No.
<LI> I doubt it.
<Havac> Frankly, I was surprised Han and Leia were allowed to openly see Dician's ship and know someone mysterious was active.
<LI> They aren't his. I don't think so.
<Havac> I hope Claws of the Dragon will make the whole thing clear.
<LI> Vader's cultists, I think.
<Havac> And they have to be his.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> I'd be interested to see Traviss's take on the Korriban Sith, if she deigns to do that sort of thing.
<Horsey> I'm surprised Leia couldn't feel a Sith presence
<Horsey> on the ship, I should say
<LI> Probably not, it'll most likely be Mandalorian-exclusive.
<Havac> He may not be their leader yet, but he has to be among them.
<Havac> They're the same group.
<LI> Making a theory, one second.
<LI> Krayt is entombed there.
<LI> They are his followers.
<LI> Worshipping his body like a Pharaoh.
<LI> Or something like that.
<Scoke> That's interesting.
<LI> Part of his group yet different from his Sith.
<Horsey> There is finally a reason for the Mandalorian stuff to be in the series, and its a good one, imo so I'm ok with the next book being about that if Jaina gets to train to be badass
<LI> Agreed, the Empress needs training to pass on to her Knights.
<Scoke> That's what I was telling everybody that has the Mando hate; they aren't just in this series because Traviss likes them, they are gonna have a purpose.
<LI> I've only had one problem with the Mandalorians so far.
<Scoke> And it looks like Jaina's gonna be a kick-butt warrior now.
<Dunc> The problem I have with Traviss is it's pretty obvious she doesn't much like the Jedi
<Dunc> And putting her in this series... :/
<Scoke> True, and hasn't she said that in an interview?
<Dunc> several times
<LI> She shoehorns them into the story, a bit.
<LI> Like Ben's mention of them in Bloodlines. Completely unnecessary.
<LI> Yanked me right out of the story.
<Scoke> I do remember that, and how random it was.
<LI> Drove me crazy.
<Scoke> Didn't like that at all.
<Dunc> That Ben thing made me >:(
<Kjazhed-Uhl> The one thing that caused discomfort for me in Bloodlines was the degree of focus she put on characters watching the tube.
<LI> There's an entire galaxy out there, he could have chosen any other species to reference.
<RF> Or, even, no specific race/species at all.
<LI> Indeed.
<LI> Completely unnecessary and rather jarring, to say the least.
<RF> "I want to be free and do stuff" vs. "I want to be free and do stuff... like a Mando!"
<LI> Exactly!
<LI> Extremely irritating.
<Horsey> lol
<Horsey> I totally didn't even notice that
<LI> Really?
<Horsey> yeah
<LI> Shocked me the first time I read it.
<Horsey> I'm one of those readers that all authors love though
<Horsey> I just go with the flow and accept what is given
<Horsey> though this chat has made me more aware as a reader, I will say
<Dunc> Horsey: I do that a lot.
<LI> I'm usually that way, except in extreme cases like that.
<Horsey> That's not an extreme case, LI
<Dunc> But I read SW differently than everything else.
<LI> It was for me.
<Dunc> Defense mechanism. :(
<RF> Heh.
<Horsey> I'm less disappointed if I just accept it all
<RF> I go with the flow... until there's an obvious error.
<Horsey> unlike Hav who has to have everything line up all neat and tidy
<LI> I was going: "Why does Ben's first thought in the situation go to Mandalorians?"
<RF> Tidy is good.
<Horsey> cuz all little boys want to be Mandalorians?
<RF> Don't you trust the Tidy Cat?
<Havac> Because he saw a Discovery Channel documentary a week before.
<Horsey> He already is going to be a Jedi, so he should have something else to want to be
<Havac> It's not that hard to explain.
<LI> No, but it makes you more aware of the writer's preferences.
<RF> No, its not.
<RF> But its still groanworthy, IMO.
<LI> I call it shoehorning.
<Dunc> I did get to thinking about maybe WHY Ben knew about mandos
<Scoke> I usually accept it if it fits the story.
<Dunc> And I came up with the concept of some Hardy Boys style serial where the kids are mandos
<LI> Ugh............
<Havac> I just want the Mirta/Ben shipping to end.
<LI> No.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> YES.
<Dunc> Which is totally silly and stupid, I know.
<LI> No.
<LI> Just no.
<Scoke> Wait a min, Mirta/Ben??!!
<Scoke> LOL
<Dunc> Didn't Traviss hook her up with some dude in Sacrifice?
<RF> Yes, exactly.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> No more Mirta/Ben!
<Havac> Yes. The Stupidest Ship on the Net.
<LI> It exists!?
<Havac> Yes.
<RF> It must be an SSD.
<Dunc> Probably because she heard about the Mirta/Ben shipping. :P
<Kjazhed-Uhl> Yes.
<Scoke> It's a good thing I don't read much fanfic... The pain...
<Havac> People who honestly think they are going to be set up.
<Dunc> It's not all bad.
<LI> I only read the good ones.
<Dunc> I haven't actually seen that in fic.
<LI> Which so far have amounted to one.
<RF> No, but the crazies make the rest of it look bad.
<Scoke> I read fanfic, just not a ton of it. If something catches my attention, I will read it.
<LI> I'm a picky reader.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> I read a post from one of the Mirta/Ben shippers being disappointed when she asked Traviss about Mirta/Ben.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> On TFN
<LI> .........
<Dunc> Heh.
<RF> Ha.
<Scoke> Oh gosh.
<Scoke> I didn't see that, what did she say?
<LI> Egads.
<Kjazhed-Uhl> Traviss apparently looked at her like she was crazy.
* Kjazhed-Uhl goes to look for that post.
<LI> I would too.
<RF> :p
<RF> Next time: We crush the Grievous/Shaak Ti shippers.
<LI> Yes.
<Scoke> That sounds about right. The whole 0_o thing.
<LI> So, how long do you want to bet until we see Boba/Jaina?
<Havac> Grievous/Shaak Ti? Can we crush Grievous/San Hill first?
<LI> *Snort*
<RF> :p
<LI> I dearly hope that does *not* exist.
<RF> Oh ho ho.
<Havac> Well, it's like five people. But it exists.
<RF> :p
<Horsey> Corran is sexy
<LI> Little stranger, still not completely out there.
<Havac> Yeah.
<Havac> Oh, it's still out there.
<LI> Better than Jabba.
<Scoke> ROFL
<LI> I see.
<RF> Oh, I'm sure there are *scores* of fangirls after that Jabba fellow.
<RF&